Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary View Post
    Women's soccer in Europe is still not much of a thing....development programs still barely exist....though they have improved a lot from 20 years ago ..

    Other than men's soccer it is hard to think of a sport in Europe, men and women, that you can really make a living at long term...perhaps men's cricket....even there it is really top heavy....
    I would say both Rugby Union and Rugby League but they are also top heavy. Tennis and golf can be very lucrative but you have to climb a long way up the rankings and travel a lot to make it.

    Meanwhile there are over 100 soccer clubs in the UK with a full-time professional playing staff. While the players at the lower levels of these earn way less than the top guys I suspect most of them earn way more than they would ever get doing a 'regular' job.
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary View Post
    Other than men's soccer it is hard to think of a sport in Europe, men and women, that you can really make a living at long term...perhaps men's cricket....even there it is really top heavy....
    Tennis and golf - probably basketball and volleyball for men
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    #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    Tennis and golf - probably basketball and volleyball for men
    Yes Tennis and golf....but even there the drop off from the top in money is steep....

    As for basketball and volleyball...they aren't really that big in Europe.... certainly nothing like soccer...
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    #24
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    Anyways....just got around to watching the video....wow...talk about devastating....pretty much the whole Nike track group in Portland is full of scumbags running the program....And anyone associated with it.....
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    #25
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    If I remember correctly Cain's parent(s) are MD's. She also went out there with obvious onlookers paying attention to what was going on. She wasn't helpless.

    Is there anyone on these boards that didn't think she would lose lbs? Or at least reshape somewhat. Not immediately just eventually. We all know that power/weight works.

    Most D1 programs have girls report that already have eating disorders. If coach is smart they try and do something about it quickly. It can sink a program because it can lead to several problems. I think coaches can take a bum rap over this. They all want a top fitness level but not bad eating habits. I've seen some top athletes report to school in pretty rough shape and believe me the coaches had a difficult time dealing with them.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mary-...b03ddc02f0b62f

    I didn't read the NYT paywalled piece but saw the above. I think it was probably more complicated than that. Yes Nike is bad. In any case I'm sure Mary has the resources to recover and do what she wants.
    Last edited by Adam$; 11-07-2019 at 09:16 PM.
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam$ View Post
    If I remember correctly Cain's parent(s) are MD's. She also went out there with obvious onlookers paying attention to what was going on. She wasn't helpless.

    Is there anyone on these boards that didn't think she would lose lbs? Or at least reshape somewhat. Not immediately just eventually. We all know that power/weight works.

    Most D1 programs have girls report that already have eating disorders. If coach is smart they try and do something about it quickly. It can sink a program because it can lead to several problems. I think coaches can take a bum rap over this. They all want a top fitness level but not bad eating habits. I've seen some top athletes report to school in pretty rough shape and believe me the coaches had a difficult time dealing with them.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mary-...b03ddc02f0b62f

    I didn't read the NYT paywalled piece but saw the above. I think it was probably more complicated than that. Yes Nike is bad. In any case I'm sure Mary has the resources to recover and do what she wants.
    Not sure what your point is. You seem to be refuting what Mary is saying about Alberto and Nike, and defending them. She was 17 and putting her trust in coaches and a system that was funding her. Her parents may be MDs but they are not world class coaches and she was there on her own (like a kid going to college). In a sense she really was helpless.

    You're right about power/weight stuff and Mary even mentions that in her video, but clearly there's a biological limit and potential damage that can be done when just pursuing that goal of weight loss. She's an example of that. I'm sure that there are athletes that can benefit from weight loss vis a healthy diet and approach. Alberto belittling Mary about her weight in front of others, and pursuing an arbitrary weigh loss goal is clearly a horrible thing for a coach to do. You recognize that, right?

    Lastly, because Mary has "the resources to recover and do what she wants" does that make what happened to her not so bad? She wouldn't be in this position of needing to recover in this way if it weren't for the unethical behavior of Alberto and Nike. Besides, how do you what damage she sustained, what recovery possibilities she has, or what her resources are?
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by gh View Post
    in light of this, time to revisit the earlier discussion about the thinness of Klosterhalfen?
    The problem with her is that she's performing at such a high level and she will be reluctant to fix what isn't broken. We wouldn't be reading about Cain right now if she was as good as Klosterhalfen.
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by gh View Post
    in light of this, time to revisit the earlier discussion about the thinness of Klosterhalfen?
    KK was rail-thin long before she arrived in Portland, no?
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    #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam$ View Post
    If I remember correctly Cain's parent(s) are MD's. She also went out there with obvious onlookers paying attention to what was going on. She wasn't helpless.

    Is there anyone on these boards that didn't think she would lose lbs? Or at least reshape somewhat. Not immediately just eventually. We all know that power/weight works.

    Most D1 programs have girls report that already have eating disorders. If coach is smart they try and do something about it quickly. It can sink a program because it can lead to several problems. I think coaches can take a bum rap over this. They all want a top fitness level but not bad eating habits. I've seen some top athletes report to school in pretty rough shape and believe me the coaches had a difficult time dealing with them.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mary-...b03ddc02f0b62f

    I didn't read the NYT paywalled piece but saw the above. I think it was probably more complicated than that. Yes Nike is bad. In any case I'm sure Mary has the resources to recover and do what she wants.
    If this video came out a year ago....it probably wouldn't have had much of an impact...there are programs with similar problems...and lots of women distance runners with eating disorders ....but with all the other Salazar stories before it is pretty devastating and considering Cain's age very difficult if impossible for Nike to respond...

    Again I could see Nike completely getting out of track...And soon....they already closed NOP....why not the rest....
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary View Post
    Anyways....just got around to watching the video....wow...talk about devastating....pretty much the whole Nike track group in Portland is full of scumbags running the program....And anyone associated with it.....
    Yep, it doesn't paint a pretty picture.
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