Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    I disagree. The Christian Cantwells of the world have no reason to go the transgender route since they can beat the best men in the world.
    Suppose Bruce Jenner won gold in 2016 instead of 1976, and decided to transition soon after and competed in the heptathlon. Easily 8000+ points.
    Eventually there will be transgender athletes winning NCAA, USATF Jr. and New Balance Nationals titles and that will force the powers-that-be to act.
    Winning by small margins at those levels isn't enough. They're already winning at the high school and NCAA D2 level. In order to change minds, there must be utter dominance that shocks the conscience of the viewing public and makes a mockery of the world record.
    Last edited by 18.99s; 10-26-2019 at 05:16 AM.
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    #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    So far we've only seen mediocre male athletes go trans; although they quickly shoot to the top ranks among women, they don't reach a level of dominance sufficient to wake up the powers that be.

    It'll probably take somebody who can blow things out of the water, like Christian Cantwell becoming Christine Cantwell and tossing the shot more than 90 feet. Or Asha Eaton scoring 8500 in the heptathlon.
    And the rest. I remember watching the late Brian Oldfield throw the women's shot well over a 100 feet screw balling around at an ITA meet in 75/76.
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    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    I disagree. The Christian Cantwells of the world have no reason to go the transgender route since they can beat the best men in the world. Eventually there will be transgender athletes winning NCAA, USATF Jr. and New Balance Nationals titles and that will force the powers-that-be to act.
    Besides those of us on this board, who remembers the number all-time 22.54 of Christian when he could be she, and the Christine of the 110m all-time #1.
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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuariki View Post
    And the rest. I remember watching the late Brian Oldfield throw the women's shot well over a 100 feet screw balling around at an ITA meet in 75/76.
    I suppose with lowered testosterone levels a Brianna Oldfield would have lost quite a bit of distance but I suspect nothing like enough to drop below the women's WR.

    My guess is that while an MtF athlete may lose muscle mass they will not lose much if anything in the way of heart/lung capacity, height and limb length.
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuariki View Post
    And the rest. I remember watching the late Brian Oldfield throw the women's shot well over a 100 feet screw balling around at an ITA meet in 75/76.
    Brian Oldfield screw balling around? I'm shocked, shocked!

    :-)
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    Suppose Bruce Jenner won gold in 2016 instead of 1976, and decided to transition soon after and competed in the heptathlon. Easily 8000+ points.
    Such an athlete would still have no incentive to compete with women, because men's sports have more prestige, it's where the action is. That's why we've always heard stories of female athletes trying to cut it in men's sports leagues (eg. Ann Meyers, Michelle Wie, Carli Lloyd, etc.).

    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    Winning by small margins at those levels isn't enough. They're already winning at the high school and NCAA D2 level. In order to change minds, there must be utter dominance that shocks the conscience of the viewing public and makes a mockery of the world record.
    Semenya certainly got everybody's attention without running video game times. Not only did Semenya not break the world record but there are plenty of high school boys that could beat her.
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    #17
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    We are seeing clear signs of a reduction in T levels, ... across all strata of leadership in the West!
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    Such an athlete would still have no incentive to compete with women, because men's sports have more prestige, it's where the action is. That's why we've always heard stories of female athletes trying to cut it in men's sports leagues (eg. Ann Meyers, Michelle Wie, Carli Lloyd, etc.).
    But in today's track & field, men and women make the same prize money at the same meets. The #10 man of any given event could see a big income boost by becoming the #1 woman and setting meet records and world records. They might even see their endorsement income increase if they find a pro-transgender sponsor.

    And anyway, nobody transitions M-to-F for the primary purpose of sports. They transition legally and/or physically for other psychological reasons, and if they're already an athlete they may decide to continue in the same sport, as a woman.

    Jenner mentioned feeling that way since youth, but didn't transition at the time because it wasn't socially acceptable back then. If Bruce Jenner had been born 40 years later, Caitlin Jenner would be dominating the heptathlon now.
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    #19
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    Back in The Day, age 20-22, I used to whimsically think that if I was a girl, I would be the best HJ'er in the world !
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    Semenya certainly got everybody's attention without running video game times. Not only did Semenya not break the world record but there are plenty of high school boys that could beat her.
    It took 10 years to get Semenya out of the picture, and the result was only a lowering of the testosterone cutoff, not an across-the-board exclusion.

    To get an across-the-board exclusion of M-to-F transgender, it's going to take somebody who obliterates the women's world records even while being under the testosterone cutoff.
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