Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckySpikes View Post
    Five defeats in 14 finals (I miscounted initially) is still too much though when you're going up against athletes who have also gone up against the best, have much better W-L ratios and have also set stellar marks.
    I disagree. There's no precedent for an athlete going undefeated at that range of distances and pulling off a 1500/10000 double or its equivalent at a global championship. The equivalent for Muhammad would a 100H/400H double with as many 100H races as 400H races. The equivalent for Usain Bolt would have been a 100/400 double with a few 400 races on the DL circuit.
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    #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by xw View Post
    Are you really going to discount his 1:59:40? Really?...
    It was an incredible performance but should not count as it just an assisted training run.

    It would be akin to having Stahl “compete” by himself in a “wind tunnel” location, with repeated self competitions until he got himself a 75m throw.
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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    I disagree. There's no precedent for an athlete going undefeated at that range of distances and pulling off a 1500/10000 double or its equivalent at a global championship. The equivalent for Muhammad would a 100H/400H double with as many 100H races as 400H races. The equivalent for Usain Bolt would have been a 100/400 double with a few 400 races on the DL circuit.
    I agree and disagree. The range of distances and the 15/10k double is a massive accomplishment, which has me ranking Hassan ahead of Muhammad, but a 100h/400h double is not equivalent to 15/10k double, nor do I think a 100/400 double is. I don't know which is harder or easier (scheduling aside), but I don't see them as comparable.
    Last edited by ATK; 10-18-2019 at 12:55 PM.
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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckySpikes View Post
    Five defeats in 14 finals (I miscounted initially) is still too much though when you're going up against athletes who have also gone up against the best, have much better W-L ratios and have also set stellar marks.
    Does this highlight an inherent problem with track and field? Fear of losing so as to not to compete as much? Hassan was testing and preparing for an untried double and so was willing to work at multiple events in order to peak properly for this unique double. And, it came at a very very late time of year. But what a double it turned out to be and individually, what incredible performances! How many athletes are willing to race when they are in heavy training for fear of losing rather than using those races to test themselves and build to that peak?
    Last edited by odelltrclan; 10-18-2019 at 03:10 PM.
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    #45
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    well said
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    #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master Po View Post
    Definitely agree on Warholm. Can't decide on the women's side.
    Same lol. Women's side is SO tough. Pretty much a toss up, there's no real wrong answer. Personally, I'd choose DM.
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    #47
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    I must admit that I admire that DM did her 2 WRs in her 2 most crucial races of the year.
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    #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trickstat View Post
    I must admit that I admire that DM did her 2 WRs in her 2 most crucial races of the year.
    For me, that carries a lot of weight. What odelltrclan said about Hassan is true of DM also. She put it on the line against her best rivals, and while she didn't come away with an undefeated record, she won the two races that mattered to her the most, both in WR time.
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    #49
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    Losing to the second fastest runner ever is not too much of a black mark, and beating that same second-fastest runner in the two most important races is also impressive.

    For me, not having undefeated seasons means less than in normal years because of the extended season which meant that many athletes were doing some competing when in heavy training while others were at peaks with heavy training at other times.
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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by bobguild76 View Post
    For me, that carries a lot of weight. What odelltrclan said about Hassan is true of DM also. She put it on the line against her best rivals, and while she didn't come away with an undefeated record, she won the two races that mattered to her the most, both in WR time.
    Naser beat SMU handily while her rival was chopping 0.6 seconds off her best. And like it or not, some consider Naser's run the best ever, though of course that should never figure into AOY voting.
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