Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soijai View Post
    It could be worse. At least Doc Patton isn't on the relays anymore.
    Doc is one of the relay coaches; Rodgers will no doubt join him some day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJG View Post
    And how many teams did you see use that technique?
    I only saw 1 team, Japan. At the hotel the next day, I asked one of the coaches about the up sweep technique and he was not a fan of it at all. He gave me the disadvantages of the up sweep technique. For the life of me , I do not remember what he said. LOL!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Klingon View Post
    I only saw 1 team, Japan. At the hotel the next day, I asked one of the coaches about the up sweep technique and he was not a fan of it at all. He gave me the disadvantages of the up sweep technique. For the life of me , I do not remember what he said. LOL!!!
    Distance between the two athletes (both arms fully extended) at the time of the exchange is the main benefit of the US method.
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    The free distance favors the push or push forward (as coined by Gerard Mach) method.
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    I've said it before, but in the only two categories that matter the upsweep is the superior technique - speed, and safety. Once again the Japanese blasted the US in relay efficiency, with a massive 2.86 second differential between the relay time and season-best times of the members. The US, while good(for them), still lagged a full half-second back, at 2.36 differential. Of course, the US had an overwhelming advantage in individual speed, so no one cares when the blind squirrel actually finds a nut lol. Had the US exchanged with the efficiency of the Japanese they would have destroyed the WR, running 36.60.

    Make no mistake - if the goal is maximum relay efficiency, combined with unparalleled baton safety, upsweep is superior, period.
    There are no strings on me
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    The differential for the Japanese sprinters means they are not very fast at accelerating from
    the blocks. If they were their individual Times would be better and that 2.86 would not be so massive.

    And many teams using the widely used common method have had similar differential.
    Using the US men who are notoriously poor does nothing for your case.

    But by all means, use the underhand pass and good luck to you.
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    Lack of accurate go mark distances, not enough practice (most would not disagree with that relative to the American team-I was told Lyles only practiced a few exchanges either the day before or the day of the final) not accelerating properly/weaving (Rodgers) etc. are the sort of aspects that perenially keeps the U.S. from being able to fully utilize their raw speed advantage. No reason to have athletes running up on each other to make a pass. When done correctly free distance from the push is best.
    Last edited by cladthin; 10-09-2019 at 04:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by guru View Post
    I've said it before, but in the only two categories that matter the upsweep is the superior technique - speed, and safety.

    Make no mistake - if the goal is maximum relay efficiency, combined with unparalleled baton safety, upsweep is superior, period.
    I totes agree, I have always said that. It was what the GDR used to do, the crack FRA teams from the 90's etc, all the best teams used to use the upsweep.

    In my limited time as an amateur junior, I personally found the upsweep much easier, I found it difficult to get my hand/wrist at the right angle to receive the baton safely with the downsweep.
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    Another factor overstating the improvement is that the athletes are not running that many 100s, usually not in real competitive environments, and on slower tracks. In addition, when they are not close to the forefront spending a lot of time on perfecting things for the flat race does not have the payoff as the top guys/gals. A year and a half ago, Wisconsin made the Semi in the 4x400, running 44.44. The had one runner under 12 (~11.6), and two in the mid-12s; the last one had a time of 13, but rarely ran it. That results in over five seconds of differential, and 44 is not that bad for a college team, since we see some national teams running 44 [thus, it is not because it is really slow and easy to have a differential].
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    Clanthin and 26mi235, could not agree with you both more about passing technique.
    It boggles my mind that some think that thousands of high school and college coaches
    And nearly every national team's coaches are simply ignorant about the manifest benefits of passing the baton underhand. USATF Coaching Education must be part of a conspiracy to keep this secret technique in the "hands" of the Japanese, (the French having long abandoned the technique that brought them glory back in ? 1991?

    I could find several examples- Canada men '95, US women 2012, will impressive differential
    far more legit than the massive 2.86. But Mr. Guru is set in his belief, period, and nothing will convince him otherwise. That we three agree with the US coaching community is enough for me. With that I bid all here a fair Adieu!
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