Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Senior Member
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    In general, I would expect that the measured distance in to grass will be shorter than on a pretty hard surface because the trailing edge will cut the grass but not hard pan. My guess is that this effect is about 5 mm but that comes from drawing a rough picture in my mind (I am assuming that the shot lands at about a 45 degree angle - smaller launch angle but lunched from 2 meters elevation).
    Last edited by 26mi235; 11-05-2019 at 07:36 AM. Reason: took out an inadvertant "to" in the second line
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    Quote Originally Posted by odelltrclan View Post
    I am sure Mr. Kovacs would not be thrilled if his 22.91 was ruled effectively the same as a 22.90 (because someone believes that statistically they are too close together and measuring imprecise to determine a significant difference) and lost because his 2nd throw did not measure up to Crouser's.
    In tennis the players don't get upset by 6-5 not winning a set. They know the rules about what the margin has to be to win a set.

    The shot putters understand that 1 or 2 cm is within the margin of measurement error. If the established rule before the competition were that you had to beat somebody by 3 or 5 cm to avoid a tie, they'd accept that. Or you could report the distances by rounding down to the nearest 5 cm, although that still has the occasional problem of two throws close to the rounding interval (e.g. 22.89 vs. 22.90 where the 22.89 is rounded down to 22.85).
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    Bottom line: We can measure an estimated/elusive/undeterminable distance with great precision.
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    I think we've been over this ground before wrt timing. Just because your watch will read thousandths or your tape millimeters does not mean those are meaningful distinctions.
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    Administrator
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    from the latest AI newsletter:

    <<We knew at the World men’s shot put result was close, but Shaun Pickering writes that the official marks from the EDM system showed that just 4mm separated the top three: Kovacs 22.911, Walsh 22.908 and Crouser 22.907! Shawn says “When you consider that the EDM relies upon a stake be-ing placed vertically in the ground at the rearmost mark in the ground, by a guy running in from the side of the sector, you can see that we may have an issue here with $60,000 at stake for the winner! ....>>
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    About an 1/8th of an inch to win....And 1/25th of an inch separating 2nd and 3rd.....yeah I could see where that could be a problem....basically it was a tie....such accuracy is silly...
    Last edited by Conor Dary; 10-30-2019 at 03:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary View Post
    such accuracy is silly...
    and it doesn't even exist, but we like having a winner, so we wink and carry on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary View Post
    About an 1/8th of an inch to win....And 1/25th of an inch separating 2nd and 3rd.....yeah I could see where that could be a problem....basically it was a tie....such accuracy is silly...
    But we don't actually report results to 1mm, so these exact differences are irrelevant.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
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    I don't see a problem here. Just measure to lesser cm and resort to next best throw(s) for placement.
    When a official rushes to a blurry spot on the grass and jabs the reflector pin somewhere in the impact crater, only God knows if the marker got it right. By a grand coincidence, sometimes the measurements are identical.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    But we don't actually report results to 1mm, so these exact differences are irrelevant.
    That was my point...completely meaningless...
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