Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinR View Post
    Maybe the better approach would be to take a lesson from power lifting. With the advent of power vests, they recognized the great advantage with the new technology, and immediately began separate competitions and a separate list of records.
    I wouldn't go that far. It can be handled like the changes from bamboo to steel to fiberglass poles in the PV, or dirt to cinder to synthetic tracks, or improved shoes - ignore it and move on.
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    #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad hammy View Post
    I wouldn't go that far. It can be handled like the changes from bamboo to steel to fiberglass poles in the PV, or dirt to cinder to synthetic tracks, or improved shoes - ignore it and move on.
    Right ho.....onward ....
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    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by bad hammy View Post
    I wouldn't go that far. It can be handled like the changes from bamboo to steel to fiberglass poles in the PV, or dirt to cinder to synthetic tracks, or improved shoes - ignore it and move on.
    Good point. To progress! (lifting glass of scotch....."
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    #54
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinR View Post
    By this line of thought, wouldn't the javelin through require some sort of animal target, to replicate the real world scenario?
    Long-distance spear throwing without much care for accuracy has been utilized in warfare, where they simultaneously throw dozens to hundreds spears at the enemy's soldiers, making them rain down on the enemy with the expectation of hitting at least a few of them.

    Of course, that is probably not done any more since guns and tanks became commonplace, but it was done throughout centuries of history. By contrast, there has never been a real-world long jumping scenario in history in which the position of the takeoff foot was unimportant. If you take off too early or too late when you're trying to jump over a moat, you're falling in.

    But if you want to increase the accuracy requirements of the javelin in some ways such as by using two parallel lines 20m apart instead of a wide sector, and/or measuring measuring the perpendicular distance from a straight throwing line instead of the radial distance from a curved line, I wouldn't oppose that.
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    #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad hammy View Post
    There's no will-the-bar-fall watching in any other field event and folks still like those events for some reason. Would you rather watch Mondo take six shots at the WR every time out or watch him waste tons of energy getting anywhere near the neighborhood?
    Maybe you should ask Mondo whether he would like to jump at a WR height with no prior attempts?

    Of course, athletes are just windup toys that do exactly what we want; I forgot.
    Cheers,
    Alan Shank
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    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Shank View Post
    Maybe you should ask Mondo whether he would like to jump at a WR height with no prior attempts?

    Of course, athletes are just windup toys that do exactly what we want; I forgot.
    Cheers,
    Alan Shank
    That's why they have these things called warmup jumps, which in the PV last a long time. Throwers and horizontal jumpers shoot for PRs on most every attempt. PVers and HJers would adapt, knowing that at most they had six attempts each meet.


    But thanks for the snarky comment about the windup toys . . .
    Last edited by bad hammy; 09-08-2019 at 11:11 PM.
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    #57
    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    Long-distance spear throwing without much care for accuracy has been utilized in warfare, where they simultaneously throw dozens to hundreds spears at the enemy's soldiers, making them rain down on the enemy with the expectation of hitting at least a few of them.

    Of course, that is probably not done any more since guns and tanks became commonplace, but it was done throughout centuries of history. By contrast, there has never been a real-world long jumping scenario in history in which the position of the takeoff foot was unimportant. If you take off too early or too late when you're trying to jump over a moat, you're falling in.

    But if you want to increase the accuracy requirements of the javelin in some ways such as by using two parallel lines 20m apart instead of a wide sector, and/or measuring measuring the perpendicular distance from a straight throwing line instead of the radial distance from a curved line, I wouldn't oppose that.
    Forgive me for suggesting this, but what if conducted the long jump by widening a chasm that requires the athletes to jump across it? Forget the board, forget the tape, just produce a span that requires them to clear it. Even though I say this in jest, it would certainly bring out the crowds.
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    #58
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    Color me a dinosaur, but I love the HJ and PV the way they are.

    Let's not forget the part the bar plays in this drama. It is something the athletes focus on, in a manner the horizontal jumpers don't need. I wonder what they would think about jumping through an imaginary vertical plane, with no bar, nothing to aim for. Nothing that would give them a sense of depth. I wonder if that lack of a target would affect their jumping.
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    #59
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    I do not see how you can have HJ or PV without a physical bar to aim at and clear... and no lucky bounces.. any touching of an imaginary electronic bar would be a fail.
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    #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobguild76 View Post
    Color me a dinosaur, but I love the HJ and PV the way they are.

    Let's not forget the part the bar plays in this drama. It is something the athletes focus on, in a manner the horizontal jumpers don't need. I wonder what they would think about jumping through an imaginary vertical plane, with no bar, nothing to aim for. Nothing that would give them a sense of depth. I wonder if that lack of a target would affect their jumping.
    Don't apologize for anything. On all track and swimming forums I have seen, there is far too much obsession with records as opposed to the competition itself. It is particularly ridiculous in swimming, where most posters on Swimswam.com would seemingly prefer a world record in the semifinal and then no medal at all, as opposed to moderate times and then bringing home that gold medal that separates you for life.

    Horse racing is far superior because nobody cares about records or anticipates them. Those fans and bettors realize that track conditions and situational variables play such a massive role.

    When a record comes...fine. But nobody is dense enough to make it the focus.
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