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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    Here are the Olympic triple jumpers who led qualifying but did not win gold in the final:

    year gender given_name surname noc medal place
    1992 M Pierre Camara FRA 11
    1956 M Teruji Kogake JPN 8
    1980 M Ian Campbell AUS 5
    2000 M Larry Achike GBR 5
    1964 M Fred Alsop GBR 4
    1968 M Giuseppe Gentile ITA Bronze 3
    1976 M Joćo Carlos de Oliveira BRA Bronze 3
    1924 M Luis Brunetto ARG Silver 2
    1948 M George Avery AUS Silver 2
    1984 M Mike Conley USA Silver 2
    1988 M Igor Lapshin URS Silver 2
    2008 M Phillips Idowu GBR Silver 2
    2008 F Yargelis Savigne CUB Bronze 3
    1996 F Inna Lasovskaya RUS Silver 2
    2000 F Tatyana Lebedeva RUS Silver 2
    2004 F Pigi Devetzi GRE Silver 2
    bambam, you are a big data wizard!!

    So for inferences regarding Campbell, there are
    4 cases of top qualifiers not medalling.


    1992 M Pierre Camara FRA 11
    1956 M Teruji Kogake JPN 8
    2000 M Larry Achike GBR 5
    1964 M Fred Alsop GBR 4
    Last edited by user4; 09-05-2019 at 12:52 PM.
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    #22
    In 1988 I was in Leningrad [as it still was then] to attend the GP Meet [The Znamenskiy] and there was a reception to celebrate 100 years of Russian Athletics. A bus would pick us up, and there were 3 of us waiting - Me, my wife and Saneyev. He was not an admirer of Russian efficiency [a view he maintained for the 30 minutes we waited for transport], but he was a delightful individual - less good with English then than he would later become, but still a pleasure to meet. We didn't get round to discussing the '80 OG
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    #23
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    Ok, so watching that video clip of Campbell's jump again and again, I have to wonder if there were not a compounding of issues. Campbell's technique clearly exploits height and not speed so as he uses that trailing leg as a big pendulum to transfer momentum upward at each phase he needs that foot to swing low. He is effectively using height to get distance. In that final phase it is dramatic and it is a thing of beauty to watch. But as he does so he is susceptible to being wrongly judged as making contact.

    Now based on the number of fouls that he was given in the final I have to wonder if the judges were not briefed and forewarned about him by the hosts (Moscow) after the qualifying round and before the final. That is to say the judges were brow beat and were effectively biased against Campbell before the final even started.

    That is my story and Im sticking to it!
    Last edited by user4; 09-07-2019 at 07:12 PM.
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by user4 View Post
    Ok, so watching that video clip of Campbell's jump again and again, I have to wonder if there were not a compounding of issues. Campbell's technique clearly exploits height and not speed so as he uses that trailing leg as a big pendulum to transfer momentum upward at each phase he needs that foot to swing low. He is effectively using height to get distance. In that final phase it is dramatic and it is a thing of beauty to watch. But as he does so he is susceptible to being wrongly judged as making contact.

    Now based on the number of fouls that he was given in the final I have to wonder if the judges were not briefed and forewarned about him by the hosts (Moscow) after the qualifying round and before the final. That is to say the judges were brow beat and were effectively biased against Campbell before the final even started.

    That is my story and Im sticking to it!
    Don't think too many here would disagree with your general viewpoint. Much of what went on in Moscow 1980, e.g. the men's JT, was disgraceful.
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    #25
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    The Russian officials were an orchestration of cheating. I believe they were instructed to call a foul on anything by a foreign jumper that might beat Saneeyev. They just hadn’t banked on another Russian beating Saneeyev.
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    #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuariki View Post
    The Russian officials were an orchestration of cheating. I believe they were instructed to call a foul on anything by a foreign jumper that might beat Saneeyev. They just hadn’t banked on another Russian beating Saneeyev.
    Uudmae is Estonian and Saneyev Georgian. However, I think most Russians considered any USSR team member as competing for Russia. I read that during (I think) the 2000 Olympics, the Russian media were disappointed with how many medals Russia were winning and were pointing out medals by athletes from Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus etc and saying they used to be "their" medals.

    Before the Moscow Olympics I feared that the officials might be biased in favour of Eastern Bloc athletes against 'Westerners'. In fact they were biased in favour of USSR athletes against everyone else wherever they were from which included their Warsaw Pact "comrades".

    I remember in the PV, an eliminated Soviet vaulter (Kulibaba?) was allowed to provide assistance to Konstantin Volkov which was clearly against the rules of the time.
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Trickstat View Post
    Uudmae is Estonian and Saneyev Georgian. However, I think most Russians considered any USSR team member as competing for Russia. I read that during (I think) the 2000 Olympics, the Russian media were disappointed with how many medals Russia were winning and were pointing out medals by athletes from Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus etc and saying they used to be "their" medals.

    Before the Moscow Olympics I feared that the officials might be biased in favour of Eastern Bloc athletes against 'Westerners'. In fact they were biased in favour of USSR athletes against everyone else wherever they were from which included their Warsaw Pact "comrades".

    I remember in the PV, an eliminated Soviet vaulter (Kulibaba?) was allowed to provide assistance to Konstantin Volkov which was clearly against the rules of the time.
    Ah yes, I well remember the headline "Kulibaba and the forty thieves".
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    #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trickstat View Post
    Uudmae is Estonian and Saneyev Georgian. However, I think most Russians considered any USSR team member as competing for Russia. I read that during (I think) the 2000 Olympics, the Russian media were disappointed with how many medals Russia were winning and were pointing out medals by athletes from Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Belarus etc and saying they used to be "their" medals.
    ..
    Reading Soviet literature from the 1930s to the 1980s it is very clear that the leadership never viewed their country as a country of ethnic russians but of a far greater republic, a union of countless local socialists.

    It is kind of a revision of the past to repaint it as an attack on specifically ethnic Russians. Yes many of the leaders that made the union of soviets a socialist republic were indeed russian but many were not, Stalin of course was a Georgian.

    If russians did consider an estonian as competing for the country russians were a part of there is certainly nothing wrong with that.

    The bottom line is that there seems to be strong evidence that the host nation created an environment where officials were biased against Campbell. That is the issue, trying to turn this into some kind of attack on ethnic russians is far fetched and a bit grotesque.
    Last edited by user4; 09-09-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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    #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by user4 View Post
    If russians did consider an estonian as competing for the country russians were a part of there is certainly nothing wrong with that.
    Of course there is nothing wrong with that because they were part of the same country at that time.

    Quote Originally Posted by user4 View Post
    That is the issue, trying to turn this into some kind of attack on ethnic russians is far fetched and a bit grotesque.
    ?I'm sorry but it is "grotesque" to twist my post into an attack on ethnic Russians!
    Last edited by Trickstat; 09-09-2019 at 04:25 PM.
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    #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by user4 View Post
    ...

    That is the issue, trying to turn this into some kind of attack on ethnic russians is far fetched and a bit grotesque.
    I did not get that from Trickstat's post at all.
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