Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ralmcg View Post
    What kind of multi-event would you consider that is (1) accessible to all track-and-field athletes and (2) are equal to both men and women (i.e. no shorter race distances for women as compared to men)? In other words, if started over, what would be the number of events and the events themselves in this new multi-event.
    One-day heptathlon, consisting of 100m, long jump, high jump, shot put, discus, 400m hurdles, 1500m (not necessarily in that order). 3 events in the morning, 4 in the evening.

    The one-day format would make it much more feasible to include in one-day meets (although the morning session may often have to be without an audience), providing more opportunities to earn a living as a professional.
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ralmcg View Post
    But I think there are cultural barriers to women and girls competing in track and field, but they would apply to most, if not all, events, not just the pole vault.
    Those barriers exist around the world for women in all events, but the pole vault adds spikes and rolls of barbed wire on the top of the barriers.
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    decathlon for women? [split]
    #13
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    this split off from an Historical thread on women's GOAT, which digressed.

    We've had this discussion in the past, but let's give it another go.
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    #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    Those barriers exist around the world for women in all events, but the pole vault adds spikes and rolls of barbed wire on the top of the barriers.
    Not in the USA, at all, that I've seen ever since Stacy D.
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    #15
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    If you are talking about barriers obviously you are not talking about the US....
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    #16
    I don't have time to look too deeply into the link between PV and combined events but here are a few quick and dirty numbers.

    MEN

    There are 54 countries in pela's alltime lists that have men listed for either PV or Dec since 2000.

    However, only 25 have athletes in both lists. These 25 countries account for 93% of PV performers and 79% of Dec. performers and have more than 10 athletes in each event.

    No other country has more than 10 athletes in either event except Estonia, which has 11 decathletes listed but zero PVers.

    The top four countries in PV, USA, GER, RUS, FRA, account for 54% and 47%, respectively.

    WOMEN

    There are 57 countries that have women listed in either PV or Hep over the same period.

    However, only 27 countries have athletes in both. These 27 countries account for 90% of PV performers and 86% of Hep. performers.

    There are only three countries USA, RUS, GER with more than 10 athletes in each event, accounting for 50% and 36%, respectively.

    In comparison to the men, the top four countries in PV also account for 54% of PV but only 38% of Hep. It takes the first 8 PV countries to reach app. the same (46% vs 47%) combined event percentage as the men.

    This data suggests that combined event success is highly concentrated but that women's is less relatede to PV success than men.

    For those that prefer a visual, I plotted the number of PV athletes vs the number of combined event athletes for both sexes in the chart below.

    PVvsCE.JPG

    Note that while there is a correlation between the two events this doesn't mean that one drives the other, rather they are both likely to be emegent results from the system supporting the athletes. You would need to look across more events to fully understand the relationship.
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    One-day heptathlon, consisting of 100m, long jump, high jump, shot put, discus, 400m hurdles, 1500m (not necessarily in that order). 3 events in the morning, 4 in the evening.

    The one-day format would make it much more feasible to include in one-day meets (although the morning session may often have to be without an audience), providing more opportunities to earn a living as a professional.
    Sounds like a good idea, although I still like to see women compete in the decathlon. However, if the heptathlon is going to be in one-day meets, there will be logistical problems if both sexes are to compete in the same meet. The Diamond League will probably have only one sex doing it per meet.
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by ralmcg View Post
    Sounds like a good idea, although I still like to see women compete in the decathlon. However, if the heptathlon is going to be in one-day meets, there will be logistical problems if both sexes are to compete in the same meet. The Diamond League will probably have only one sex doing it per meet.
    Still better than the current situation of no multis in DL meets.

    And there are enough DL meets each year to host 5 or 6 one-day competitions each for men and women, with no meet having both sexes.
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    #19
    I wonder how male decathletes would feel if the disciplines in the multi-event are reduced from ten to seven? Would they feel happy that they will have to do seven events instead of ten? Or will they think that they will be reduced to doing "easier", more "girly" version of multi-events? I think it won't be easy to convince the men that the version of the heptathlon proposed by 18.99s in this forum will define who is the world's greatest track-and-field athlete as the decathlon does.
    Last edited by ralmcg; 08-10-2019 at 01:23 PM.
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    #20
    I found a Tedx talk about gender inequality in sports, with special emphasis on the decathlon, by a decathlete named Lauren Kuntz. The video is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQBP_cZn70U&t.
    Last edited by ralmcg; 08-10-2019 at 01:54 PM.
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