Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #41
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    Thanks Django for the feed back on H.E.'s fight with Mr Levitt on turning pro. I had to pull out the September 21, 1958 Sports Illustrated issue with Elliott on the cover and several pages were devoted to the bribe and legal threats against Elliott by Leavitt. There is a photo of Leavitt receiving an autographed boomerang from Elliott. It alludes to a deadly threat by Leavitt to Elliott: "I have one question to ask Herb Elliott and if I don't get the right answer he will not run in the Rome Olympics." Leavitt claimed he had a damaging tape recording of a secret phone call with Elliott which he would use to sue Elliott if he turned down his professional offer. This definitely effected Elliott's focus on training as he was in the headlines almost daily with newspaper reporters and townspeople and obviously teammates interfering with his privacy.
    Bannister turned him down immediately stating he was in the British Medical Corp doing research on heat exhaustion effect on troops and could not even think of his offer and would never accept it.

    With over 3000+ viewers on this topic it is amazing that after DoubleRBar's challenge question who would beat each other in a match race at their peak performance years (Snell vs Ryun, Elliott, vs Ryun, or Snell vs Elliot) there were only four opinions and answers given by "respondents". What did the other 2999+ viewers think or guess at the question??
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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by midwestfan View Post
    Thanks Django for the feed back on H.E.'s fight with Mr Levitt on turning pro. I had to pull out the September 21, 1958 Sports Illustrated issue with Elliott on the cover and several pages were devoted to the bribe and legal threats against Elliott by Leavitt. There is a photo of Leavitt receiving an autographed boomerang from Elliott. It alludes to a deadly threat by Leavitt to Elliott: "I have one question to ask Herb Elliott and if I don't get the right answer he will not run in the Rome Olympics." Leavitt claimed he had a damaging tape recording of a secret phone call with Elliott which he would use to sue Elliott if he turned down his professional offer. This definitely effected Elliott's focus on training as he was in the headlines almost daily with newspaper reporters and townspeople and obviously teammates interfering with his privacy.
    Bannister turned him down immediately stating he was in the British Medical Corp doing research on heat exhaustion effect on troops and could not even think of his offer and would never accept it.

    With over 3000+ viewers on this topic it is amazing that after DoubleRBar's challenge question who would beat each other in a match race at their peak performance years (Snell vs Ryun, Elliott, vs Ryun, or Snell vs Elliot) there were only four opinions and answers given by "respondents". What did the other 2999+ viewers think or guess at the question??
    One reason could be that it all boils down to ones opinions/prejudices. Is the question hinting that one of those three is the favorite for all-time greatest 1500m/mile runner?
    All conjecture, and why not throw W. George, G. Hagg, and others into the mix?
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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by catson52 View Post
    One reason could be that it all boils down to ones opinions/prejudices. Is the question hinting that one of those three is the favorite for all-time greatest 1500m/mile runner?
    All conjecture, and why not throw W. George, G. Hagg, and others into the mix?
    I was the one that started Snell vs Elliott and that's all I asked. Others brought in Ryun. I only asked Snell vs Elliott because they are contemporaries and also the AUS / NZL thing, and they were both great milers.

    Wasn't saying they were the greatest ever - but for me, it is either Elliott or El Guerrouj. I think Ryun would have been had he not gotten sick with mono around 1966-67. He was never the same again.
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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    I think Ryun would have been had he not gotten sick with mono around 1966-67. He was never the same again.
    I've always thought the same about Ryun's mono, and I think I've shared that thought on other threads.

    I believe he got mono in 1968, not 1966-67.
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    #45
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    Definitely 1968....the 1966 and especially the 1967 healthy Ryun is still a marvel to remember...especially his 3:33.1....a last 1200 of 2:46.6...on a cinder track and on his own....
    Last edited by Conor Dary; 08-26-2019 at 05:14 PM.
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    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    I was the one that started Snell vs Elliott and that's all I asked. Others brought in Ryun. I only asked Snell vs Elliott because they are contemporaries and also the AUS / NZL thing, and they were both great milers.

    Wasn't saying they were the greatest ever - but for me, it is either Elliott or El Guerrouj. I think Ryun would have been had he not gotten sick with mono around 1966-67. He was never the same again.
    My apologies, my comments were not directed at you. The Snell vs. Elliott question has been thought of for almost 60 years, with no resolution, of course. As a callow 19 year old, I was one of those awaiting the titanic clash. Yes, the Ryun of 1966 and 1967 was really something special. He contracted mono some time in 1968, and was never the same again, and in later years, asthma did not help at all. The only comparable runners (and seasons) were Hagg in 1942 (in my estimation the best of all time amongst middle distance runners, especially the 82 days), Elliott in 1958 and El G in 1998 and 1999. In the latter year, e.g in the mile WR, the signs were beginning to appear of his coming troubles in 2000.
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    #47
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    Since this thread has expanded to include a bunch of great milers, let me add Stanislav Jungwirth. Perhaps not quite in this stratospheric class but he was the first under 3:40 in 1500. I saw him race quite a few times.
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley
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    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by catson52 View Post
    My apologies, my comments were not directed at you.
    No apologies needed. I was not offended in anyway
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    #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary View Post
    Definitely 1968....the 1966 and especially the 1967 healthy Ryun is still a marvel to remember...especially his 3:33.1....a last 1200 of 2:46.6...on a cinder track and on his own....
    I was too young to remember Elliott and Snell very well, but came of age thinking Ryun was the most amazing runner ever. His reign at the top was as short as Elliott's, but "only" included Olympic silver, not gold. I will always believe he would have struck gold in '72 had he not tripped in the heat. He isn't the greatest miler ever career-wise (my choice is El G), but at his peak, I think he was the best ever.
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    #50
    I agree that Jim Ryan was amazing, and maybe the best ever! Meanwhile, I keep thinking about that matchup between. Elliott and Snell, both at their peaks. In my imagination, Elliott would put in a withering burst during the third lap, and open a gap on Snell. On the other hand, Snell was no stranger to stamina, and might have made p the ground on Elliott. I can't decide who would win, but it would have been a memorable race, that's for sure. Two great champions!
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