Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by bobguild76 View Post
    If we are eager to slam doctors who prescribe legal opioids to combat real pain, where is our outrage at Companies who peddle products with sugar and processed ingredients? But no one is forcing people to have a Big Mac, fries, and a Coke, Supersize that. People choose to eat that on their own.
    That's intellectually lazy and unconvincing what-aboutism and deflection. The topic is opioids, not war or malaria or anything else that kills more people.
    And fast food doesn't have the potential to do good as correctly prescribed opioids can.
    We're talking about opioids that are prescribed unnecessarily or in excess, some of it due to bribes from the pharma companies, not "correctly prescribed opioids".

    Now get back to us when doctors start prescribing a diet of 3 Big Macs per day with large fries. Or when somebody is so physically addicted to Twinkies that they go into a deadly withdrawal seizure when they don't get access to them for 24 hours. Or when somebody is so obsessed with getting their next ice cream sandwich that they go on a spree of breaking into cars and houses to get stuff to pay for their next Klondike. Or when a first responder ends up in the hospital from exposure to a single grain of sugar at the scene (like what can happen with a single grain of fentanyl).
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    #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    We're talking about opioids that are prescribed unnecessarily or in excess, some of it due to bribes from the pharma companies, not "correctly prescribed opioids".

    Seeking to find common ground with the masses, user4 suggests that maybe we can all agree on two things:

    1) opioid pain relief medicine is an essential component of a modern civilization and those that make these precision meds are essential players in the medical miracle of western civilized medicine.

    2) Any MD that would prescribe an abundance of drugs to a person that is addicted to them and not in need of pain relief should lose their license to practice medicine in these United States of America.
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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by user4 View Post
    Seeking to find common ground with the masses, user4 suggests that maybe we can all agree on two things:

    1) opioid pain relief medicine is an essential component of a modern civilization and those that make these precision meds are essential players in the medical miracle of western civilized medicine.

    2) Any MD that would prescribe an abundance of drugs to a person that is addicted to them and not in need of pain relief should lose their license to practice medicine in these United States of America.
    Expand (2) to include those who unnecessarily prescribe opioids to patients who've never used them and for whom a non-opioid painkiller would suffice, and those who prescribe an excessive dosage or duration to not-yet-addicted patients with a legitimate need for them.
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    #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    That's intellectually lazy and unconvincing what-aboutism and deflection. The topic is opioids, not war or malaria or anything else that kills more people.

    We're talking about opioids that are prescribed unnecessarily or in excess, some of it due to bribes from the pharma companies, not "correctly prescribed opioids" ...
    That was not my intent. As a chaplain at a hospital, I have the unfortunate task to sit with families of those who overdose on opioids and those who die early deaths from issues related to obesity. We have an opioid crisis in America. More than 70,000 died last year because of opioid overdoses, almost 200 per day. It is tragic, and I have sat with many patients in their last days and with the surviving families as they process through their grief. But very few of those deaths came about from a doctor prescribing the opioids. Most came about through self-administered use and abuse.

    That being said, any doctor who knowingly prescribes opioids beyond what is called for should be sanctioned. What is uncertain is the extent to which Big Pharma bribes doctors to overprescribe.

    My point in bringing fast food, obesity, and their impact on early deaths was to highlight something I believe kills more people than opioids. I have sat with far more morbidly obese young people at death's doorstep, and with their grieving families, than I have with those dying from opioids. There is a much closer cause and effect between fentanyl misuse and death than between Big Macs and death, for sure. And the truth is, this thread is about opioids, not fast food. So your points are well taken.

    It seems to me though that most opioid deaths are not because Big Pharma is bribing doctors to overmedicate people. Most come from people, for a variety of reasons, abusing a drug that has many positive uses when properly prescribed.
    Last edited by bobguild76; 07-22-2019 at 08:41 PM.
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    #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobguild76 View Post
    It seems to me though that most opioid deaths are not because Big Pharma is bribing doctors to overmedicate people. Most come from people, for a variety of reasons, abusing a drug that has many positive uses when properly prescribed.
    My point exactly
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    #36
    This thread suggests that the WaPo piece oversimpified the problem. This author agrees:

    https://reason.com/2019/07/18/the-wa...26+Run+Blog%29
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    #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master403 View Post
    This thread suggests that the WaPo piece oversimpified the problem. This author agrees:

    [url]https://reason.com/2019/07/18/the-washington-posts-simplistic-assumption-
    The WaPo placing their own preconceived biased template of the world over every set of facts that arrives at their air-conditioned urban Washington DC office? .. I'm shocked!!
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    #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master403 View Post
    This thread suggests that the WaPo piece oversimpified the problem. This author agrees:

    https://reason.com/2019/07/18/the-wa...26+Run+Blog%29
    of course the author is writing for a libertarian think tank whose motto is "free minds and free markets"
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    #39
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    The dismissiveness of opinion on this matter on issues not apparently understood in any deep matter is fascinating.
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    #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by gh View Post
    of course the author is writing for a libertarian think tank whose motto is "free minds and free markets"
    horror of horrors!

    We need to make sure that all this free thinking is put in its place. We need a central clearing house to determine how to see all these facts that are being thrown at us. We should never just let the market place of ideas work freely because there are cases in the past where at some time or another the market place of ideas can be falsely blamed for a horrible event.

    What we need is a group of people in a central urban center with degrees in Law, Political science, and Journalism, who have never produced a good or service for normal people and never have made anything that anyone wants that can give their lives comfort, safety, warmth in winter and cooling in summer or food to eat.

    Rather they have given themselves 6 years of sheltered studies in an urban environment with aspirations that someday they can tell us how to see each other in the most horrible possible light.
    Last edited by user4; 07-23-2019 at 02:05 AM.
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