Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #41
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    here's a (very successful) lawyer who seems to think the big target is distributors not manufacturers. (from 60 Minutes)

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/opioid-...es-2019-06-30/
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    #42
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    The origin, evolution and astonishing scale of America’s catastrophic opioid epidemic just got a lot clearer. The drug industry — the pill manufacturers, wholesalers and retailers — found it profitable to flood some of the most vulnerable communities in America with billions of painkillers. They continued to move their product, and the medical community and government agencies failed to take effective action, even when it became apparent that these pills were fueling addiction and overdoses and were getting diverted to the streets.

    This has been broadly known for years, but this past week, the more precise details became public for the first time in a trove of data released after a legal challenge from The Washington Post and the owner of the Charleston Gazette-Mail in West Virginia.

    The revelatory data comes from the Drug Enforcement Administration and its Automation of Reports and Consolidated Orders System (ARCOS). It tracks the movement of every prescription pill in the country, from factory to pharmacy .


    “This really shows a relationship between the manufacturers and the distributors: They were all in it together,” said Jim Geldhof, a retired DEA employee who spent his 43-year career working on drug diversion cases and is now a consultant for plaintiffs in a massive lawsuit against the drug industry. “We’re seeing a lot of internal stuff that basically confirms what we already knew. It just reinforces the fact that it was all about greed, and all about money.”


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...=.d540bd389aa2
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    #43
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    From the Smithsonian online magazine,

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ion-180971559/

    "... The United States has been gripped by a dire drug crisis. In 2017 alone, drug overdoses caused the deaths of some 70,000 people, with opioids being the main driver of this tragic statistic ...

    This wasn’t always the case. During the 1990s and early 2000s, the United States was not an outlier in terms of drug overdose deaths, and Nordic countries were experiencing the highest rates among wealthy nations. But a number of factors—including false reassurances by pharmaceutical companies that opioids are not addictive, which in turn led to their overprescription as painkillers—have driven the current epidemic. As efforts to decrease opioid prescriptions have taken hold, addicted patients have turned to heroin and, more recently, fentanyl, a synthetic drug even more deadly than prescription pills and heroin.

    In other countries, by contrast, opioid prescriptions have been tightly controlled. In Japan, for instance, doctors are required to undergo extensive training before they can prescribe opioids for non-cancer related pain. In France, Italy and Portugal, patients have to be registered before they can receive opioid medications. But Ho notes in her study that significant increases in opioid-related deaths have been documented in Australia and Canada, where opioid consumption has also increased. And while not as dramatic as the situation in the United States, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Sweden, and the United Kingdom have also seen higher rates of opioid prescribing in recent years.

    “The use of prescription opioids and synthetic drugs like fentanyl are becoming increasingly common in many high-income countries,” Ho says, “and constitute a common challenge to be confronted by these countries.”
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    #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobguild76 View Post
    From the Smithsonian online magazine,

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...ion-180971559/

    "... The United States has been gripped by a dire drug crisis. In 2017 alone, drug overdoses caused the deaths of some 70,000 people, with opioids being the main driver of this tragic statistic ...

    This wasn’t always the case. During the 1990s and early 2000s, the United States was not an outlier in terms of drug overdose deaths, and Nordic countries were experiencing the highest rates among wealthy nations. But a number of factors—including false reassurances by pharmaceutical companies that opioids are not addictive, which in turn led to their overprescription as painkillers—have driven the current epidemic. As efforts to decrease opioid prescriptions have taken hold, addicted patients have turned to heroin and, more recently, fentanyl, a synthetic drug even more deadly than prescription pills and heroin...
    “The use of prescription opioids and synthetic drugs like fentanyl are becoming increasingly common in many high-income countries,” Ho says, “and constitute a common challenge to be confronted by these countries.”
    Count me skeptical that ease of access to opioids leads to more deaths.

    For starters, there are suicide rates and men that seek to commit suicide have a number of options. When opioids are more readily available then suicide rates by gun shot wound will go down.

    Yes, accidental opioid overdose deaths are real, but they are driven by other factors, lack of purpose and of a sense of value of one's life to others that they love.
    Last edited by user4; 07-24-2019 at 02:14 AM.
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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by user4 View Post
    snip...When opioids are more readily available then suicide rates by gun shot wound will go down. snip...
    Citation please!

    ******

    As a pointless, datum anecdote, I am not one for avoiding pain in life, proven by my poor choice in women over the years...

    However, I was once automatically prescribed and handed opioids after a hammer/chisel/bone connection by a bambam confrère.

    After two days of agony, strangely distant from the actual site of chisel/bone collision, I eventually succumbed to using A pill and found out that, "Fuuuuuuck, thiiiis feeeeels gooooood, and I liiiiike it."

    And that's the last time I ever took anything stronger than aspirin for pain relief.

    Some people just can't suffer of their own volition, just like I can't endure a 50k run for the fun of it.

    So let's not offer people, as a matter of course, what they are mostly going to like but mostly can't handle.
    Last edited by El Toro; 07-24-2019 at 01:53 PM. Reason: stupid French fiddly bits
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    #46
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    "Citation please!"

    I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for one....
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    #47
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    here are my 2 minutes of searching to support a rational conjecture (in fact it is such a rational conjecture that a citation should be required to refute it):


    where guns are everywhere, suicide by gun shot is quite common https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicid..._United_States

    and where guns are not everywhere suicide by other means (poisoning, hanging etc) make up the difference:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicid...United_Kingdom

    i choose UK and US to compare because the demographics and social issues are otherwise quite similar.

    A person seeking to commit suicide in a place with easy access to opioids can overdose and painlessly kill themselves. https://www.who.int/substance_abuse/...tion-sheet/en/

    If he can not get access to a bottle full of opioids he may choose to hang himself, or CO poison himself in his garage or he may find some other deadly cocktail.

    If he has a gun , he might just shoot himself, as a plurality of the depressed do in the US.

    The point is very simple, a healthy minded person would never think to kill themselves whether they have a 10pill supply of pain killers in their cabinet or not. Increase the supply in that cabinet to 100 pills and he has the same (zero) chance of committing suicide.

    So no, ease of availability of opioid pain relievers can not make a depressed person choose suicide. It is quite rational to deduce that ease of availability of opioids can only make them choose opioids over some other method such as gun shot wound as the method of suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by El Toro View Post
    After two days of agony, strangely distant from the actual site of chisel/bone collision, I eventually succumbed to using A pill and found out that, "Fuuuuuuck, thiiiis feeeeels gooooood, and I liiiiike it."
    I have been in terrible agony on more than two occasions. And on both occasions the day after I had to stand before my peers and give a talk. Lets just say that if it were not for the prescription hydrocodone tablets that I saved from a few years back I would never have gotten a nights sleep and been able to get through those important days. There are times when you can be hit with some pain and you cant immediately drop every responsibility and rush off to the MD. Sometimes on rare occasions you have to survive for a few days before the MD appointment.

    Never did it occur to me that I would take those tablets because it made me "feels good and i like it" . In fact the remaining tablets are still in my refrigerator. And I will use them in the years ahead if I ever need them.
    Last edited by user4; 07-24-2019 at 09:35 PM.
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    #48
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    So user4 is among those who save pain killer drugs and self-prescribes. Sounds like a dangerous path to me and not sure that his "need" to perform before his peers justifies drug use or that it differs very much from "recreational" or "feels good" use of drugs or alcohol.
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    #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jc203 View Post
    So user4 is among those who save pain killer drugs and self-prescribes. Sounds like a dangerous path to me and not sure that his "need" to perform before his peers justifies drug use or that it differs very much from "recreational" or "feels good" use of drugs or alcohol.
    having never used recreational drugs or taken anything to "feel good" I am not qualified to answer if you are really in danger or if you should be sure about anything, id recommend going down by the Santa Barbara pier and asking a few pot smokers for an informed answer.
    Last edited by user4; 07-24-2019 at 11:21 PM.
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    #50
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    ?????????? I can see a huge difference between intended medical use and recreational use of drugs.
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