Facts, Not Fiction

 

Thread: 1964 AAU's

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 46
  1. Collapse Details
     
    #21
    My home town until I was about 5 years old was Bound Brook, NJ, which is only about 4 miles from Rutgers. In 1964, we had driven back to visit family, and I was able to attend the AAU meet.
    After so many years, my memories have faded, but I rememebr feeling glad that I wasn't a good enough runner to have qualified for the championships because the weather was really hot and oppressively humid.
    I remember seeing Mihaly Igloi supervising a morning workout by his runners on a grassy area under some trees near the stadium. In retrospect, Igloi must have been happy to have been in New Brunswick, which had a very large Hungarian population!
    Finally, I have a vague memory of seeing the 1500m., and being impressed by the power and smoothness of runners such as Burleson and Ryan and O'Hara.
    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    21st State
    Posts
    180
    Django, you got that memory correct, weather was horrible to warm up with I called muggy which meant as you said "oppressively humid".

    gh: appreciate you "pro forma" explanation of the rules of the road to get to Tokyo in 1964. All those who participated and competed were well aware of that complicated road (NCAA, AAU, Inter-service Meet, OT-semi, and OT-Finals).


    You didn't answer my query regarding photo-finish pictures from some 55 years ago on the OT-semi and OT- Final Meets in which Ryun and Grelle had exact same times for 3rd and 4th places in both meets but each had a 3rd place once in those two meets with Ryun getting the decision on the important last OT-Final race.

    I doubt you are not inferring that Ryun was given the decision by a timer/place judge at finish line who saw "Ryun win by a foot". Nor do I think they used the TV coverage video in slow motion to determine that "foot". So there must have been a photo of the 1500 meter finishes for 1st-4th place that some official (s) reviewed moments after the race. I don't recall any controversy, objection, or delay in the official result and Grelle never protested the official result. I also believe the result was true and fair for Ryun over Grelle. My question, which you may not be able to research, was the photo used to judge the winner reviewed by 1,2,3...6 officials and was it unanimous or split (5-1, 4-2, etc).


    I found it fascinating that the Ryun vs Grelle duel began in early June in the Compton Relays historic mile race in which Grelle beat Ryun by only 0.5 secs when Ryun ran his first sub four minute mile at age 17. Then there were three OG qualifying races that separated Ryun and Grelle by a total of only 0.1 sec for the combined races.

    My specific question, which may be un-answerable, is there a picture of the photo finish of the two OT races that some one has seen or become available to see???


    I feel that Ryun was/is USA's best miler to date.
    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    #23
    There is a pretty good photo in the 9/21/64 SI:

    https://www.si.com/vault/issue/43164/29

    It seems clear from the photo and caption that Ryun's torso is crossing the finish line as Grelle's foot is coming down on the line. Experienced officials would have had no problem getting the places correct.

    Also, there would not have been multiple officials reviewing a photo to assign places. The finish line crew would have been a head timer plus one timer for each place (three for first) and one judge for each place to get the order. The judges and timers were all quite competent, took great pride in their work, and were skeptical that a camera could replace them.
    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    21st State
    Posts
    180
    Thanks Master 403 for SI front view of OT-F 1500 m race. I wish there were photos like T&F News had in the 1964 NCAA 10,000m dead heat finish of Jim Murphy and Bill Straub (from the newspaper Eugene Register-Guard). It shows a "dead heat" with awarding of two gold medals to each.

    I believe the official AAU Rules of "The Finish" definition in 1964 was: Competitors shall be placed in the order in which any part of their torsos reach the finish line (Torso includes the body and neck but not the hands, arms, head, legs, or feet)

    My only interest in the three races that Grelle and Ryun ran in the 1964 OT (AAU, OT-S and OT-F) were the closeness of all three races between these great American milers who were more than a decade in age difference.

    In 1965 we saw Grelle and Ryun duel again in three races with the time difference being: 0.1, 0.2, and 0.4 difference.

    And believe it or not in 1966 Ryun and Grelle dueled twice with exactly the same times; NYAC Indoor MIle in 4:02.2 for both and the Coliseum Relays in the two mile with exactly the same times of 8:52.2.


    I am not critical of any of the judges, officials or the results and accept the call because that is the way we ere taught and we all played by those rules.


    I
    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by midwestfan View Post
    I believe the official AAU Rules of "The Finish" definition in 1964 was: Competitors shall be placed in the order in which any part of their torsos reach the finish line (Torso includes the body and neck but not the hands, arms, head, legs, or feet)
    The current USATF rule (165.4) is essentially the same.
    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,138
    Quote Originally Posted by tandfman View Post
    The current USATF rule (165.4) is essentially the same.
    The definition of torso now excludes the neck.
    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    #27
    Yes, you're right. I know the rule, but I read midwestfan's quote too hastily. My bad.
    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by midwestfan View Post
    Thanks Master 403 for SI front view of OT-F 1500 m race. I wish there were photos like T&F News had in the 1964 NCAA 10,000m dead heat finish of Jim Murphy and Bill Straub (from the newspaper Eugene Register-Guard). It shows a "dead heat" with awarding of two gold medals to each.

    I believe the official AAU Rules of "The Finish" definition in 1964 was: Competitors shall be placed in the order in which any part of their torsos reach the finish line (Torso includes the body and neck but not the hands, arms, head, legs, or feet)

    My only interest in the three races that Grelle and Ryun ran in the 1964 OT (AAU, OT-S and OT-F) were the closeness of all three races between these great American milers who were more than a decade in age difference.

    In 1965 we saw Grelle and Ryun duel again in three races with the time difference being: 0.1, 0.2, and 0.4 difference.

    And believe it or not in 1966 Ryun and Grelle dueled twice with exactly the same times; NYAC Indoor MIle in 4:02.2 for both and the Coliseum Relays in the two mile with exactly the same times of 8:52.2.


    I am not critical of any of the judges, officials or the results and accept the call because that is the way we ere taught and we all played by those rules.


    I
    Obvious typo, it was 8:25.2 AR.
    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    21st State
    Posts
    180
    You are right KDFINE, a quick move of my typing fingers reversed the 5 and the 2.

    How does/did the AAU handle the listing of the AR for Two Miles that night? Did Ryun break the AR and Grelle tied the American record (since Ryun was ruled 1st in the race even though he had the same time as Grelle)? Or does/did the AAU list both Grelle and Ryun as both breaking the AR on that night?


    If (hypothetically) another American ran 8:25.2 in another Meet 2-3 weeks later he obviously would be described as "tying" the 2 mile AR.


    Has this ever happened before that a WR or AR was set by two runners with exactly the same recorded times? (Can't apply to Field events obviously, or could it?)
    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Fishers, IN
    Posts
    7,509
    Mills and Lindgren 6 miles at AAU 1965. WR for both with Mills the winner.
    Last edited by dukehjsteve; 08-02-2019 at 07:41 PM.
    Reply With Quote
     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •