Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    a thread undoubtedly with a short lifespan (Semenya at Pre)
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Klingon View Post
    Do you say the same thing about Jarmila Kratochvilova? Because if you are judging Semenya by the way she looks, well.......
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There's a difference between looking muscular and looking masculine.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
     

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    why are some still talking about Semenya's appearance? We know she has intersex traits, and actually there are many more female sprinters with far more muscle than her, yet no one is talking about them. And then attention is turned to Klosterhalfen. Women are either too muscular, or too thin...Jesus give me strength!

    This is NOT about women having to fit your view of what a female athlete should look like! I don't see any comments on the numerous male long distance runners that look underweight, the overweight male shotputters who are walking heart attacks.....stop already!
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella2 View Post
    why are some still talking about Semenya's appearance? We know she has intersex traits, and actually there are many more female sprinters with far more muscle than her, yet no one is talking about them. !
    It's not so much about muscle...it's about structure. Caster hit puberty and grew as a man and now has that structure that a woman CAN'T HAVE no matter how much muscle she might put on. It's the STRUCTURE as much as anything that's simply unfair to born women.

    I believe you know this (since it's not some deep science, but basic anatomy) and are being disingenuous to support your cause. Caster has an man's body. You KNOW she does. ANY person that watches track with me and doesn't know about Caster has the same wide-eyed "wtf" reaction to seeing Caster. It's jarring. They think she's a man. They aren't totally wrong. Only people with a political/social agenda try to spin this as a bad/evil thing.

    We DON'T CARE ABOUT THIS off the track (she can do what she wants) but on the track it matters greatly to this sport we love.
    You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottmitchell74 View Post
    It's not so much about muscle...it's about structure. Caster hit puberty and grew as a man .
    No she didn't. She did not grow as a man. She is intersex and grew as an intersex person. When she hit puberty she developed a mixture of male and female primary & secondary sexual characteristics. They were not all male. And they were not all female. Had their been medical intervention early she may well have grown as a man, but there wasn't and she didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottmitchell74 View Post
    and now has that structure that a woman CAN'T HAVE no matter how much muscle she might put on. It's the STRUCTURE as much as anything that's simply unfair to born women.

    I believe you know this (since it's not some deep science, but basic anatomy) and are being disingenuous to support your cause. Caster has an man's body. You KNOW she does. ANY person that watches track with me and doesn't know about Caster has the same wide-eyed "wtf" reaction to seeing Caster. It's jarring. They think she's a man. They aren't totally wrong. Only people with a political/social agenda try to spin this as a bad/evil thing.

    We DON'T CARE ABOUT THIS off the track (she can do what she wants) but on the track it matters greatly to this sport we love.
    Caster does not have a mans body. She has the body of an intersex person, who weight trains and runs. We know she is someone diagnosed with DSD, do not make her out to be something she isn't i.e. fully male. That is medically, ethically and morally wrong.
     

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella2 View Post
    why are some still talking about Semenya's appearance? We know she has intersex traits, and actually there are many more female sprinters with far more muscle than her, yet no one is talking about them. And then attention is turned to Klosterhalfen. Women are either too muscular, or too thin...Jesus give me strength!

    This is NOT about women having to fit your view of what a female athlete should look like! I don't see any comments on the numerous male long distance runners that look underweight, the overweight male shotputters who are walking heart attacks.....stop already!
    This is an open message board and the posters here don't need approval from you to decide what they want to talk about. GH's approval is the only one that matters.
     

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    re: Klosterhalfen
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella2 View Post
    Women are objectified in many ways in these forums
    re: Semenya
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella2 View Post
    That is medically, ethically and morally wrong.
    I know your heart is in the right place, 'defending' these women from what you think are scurrilous attacks on their bodies, but no one here is objectifying, or shaming, or trying to criticize the character or worth of these people. They are making comments about some obvious concerns, concerns that reach farther than the individuals in question.
    As a coach of females who suffered from anorexia, I immediately noticed K's thinness and was also concerned. Erring on the side of caution is never a bad thing.

    You are right about two things: 1) we are not her doctor, but in my experience, females with anorexia are usually in denial, and as long as she's running well, she can keep the worriers at bay, but then comes the crash, with hospitalization, and 2) large throwers aren't singled out for their girth (some NFLers look like heart-attacks waiting to happen), but the difference is they are highly fit individuals. I have never had a problem with large throwers; I've had major problems with females who got too thin.

    As for Semenya, I'm sure she's a great person, and as an intersex, she identifies as a female, which is natural given her lack of external genitalia. But when she steps on the track, she's at a tremendous physical advantage, to the point where it's simply not fair to women with 'normal' t-counts. It's not Semenya's fault, and we all sympathize with her position, doing what she loves, running fast, but . . . in this case . . . it IS interfering with others' 'pursuit of happiness' because they simply can't compete with her physiological advantage. The greater good, here, is to keep her out of female-only (i.e., not intersex) competition.
     

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    I think we can keep typing "it's about the Track and Field!!!!!" until we have carpal tunnel and certain folks won't get it...

    Gabriella - So you do agree then that Caster isn't just a woman, and yet you want her competing against women?

    And ANY novice who looks at Caster does the old double-take, "wtf", "why is he running with the women", "that's a man", "that's not right", "that's not fair", "how can this be", etc and so on...

    Only agenda driven people want to see Caster on the track with people born as women only.
    You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!
     

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella2 View Post
    No she didn't. She did not grow as a man. She is intersex and grew as an intersex person. When she hit puberty she developed a mixture of male and female primary & secondary sexual characteristics. They were not all male. And they were not all female. Had their been medical intervention early she may well have grown as a man, but there wasn't and she didn't.



    Caster does not have a mans body. She has the body of an intersex person, who weight trains and runs. We know she is someone diagnosed with DSD, do not make her out to be something she isn't i.e. fully male. That is medically, ethically and morally wrong.
    She's XY and has clangers. How she identifies is not an issue.
    She's not fully male cos she missing one thing. However, she has more male characteristics than female. She has no female reproductive organs at all.

    It is what it is, and its not fair. But its less fair to the rest of the women's athletic world. At this stage she has 2 more clangers than Caitlyn Jenner, and is similar elsewhere.
     

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    Clangers? That's a new one for me.
     

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    Exactly....we had a whole thread already closed down on this topic just a few days ago....

    Anyways Semenya won't be running for quite awhile now...
     

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