Facts, Not Fiction

 
Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 91
  1. Collapse Details
     
    #51
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    A Temperate Island
    Posts
    7,633
    If this is about science and fairness, what business is it of the IAAF if an athlete has gender dysphoria?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletic...terone-tested/

    However, Stephane Bermon, director of science and health at the IAAF, has told the French journal Sciences et Avenir that psychological tests on athletes were a "very important parameter that tells us if the person has a gender dysphoria, in other words, more prosaically, if they feel good about their gender or aspire to change it, or do not know."
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    #52
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Goldsmith
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by polevaultpower View Post
    I have seen experts from many countries weigh in on this on Twitter. She is considered female by all of them.
    Twitter probably bans holders of the opposing point of view.
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    #53
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    A Temperate Island
    Posts
    7,633
    100% this should not be an LGBTQ issue. But it feels like one because the IAAF keeps making it one.

    https://www.sciencesetavenir.fr/sant...eatment_134846

    If a person claims to be a woman and wants to compete IN THIS PROTECTED FEMALE CATEGORY, then she should be happy to lower her testosterone level. If this is not the case then one must ask questions (a) about her true sexual identity, (b) about possible secondary benefits to maintain such as [note de traducteur: “such as” = mots qui manquent?] her high testosterone levels.
    I don't know who needs to hear this, but being a butch lesbian does not make anyone run faster and it does not make them a man.
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    #54
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    2,027
    Quote Originally Posted by polevaultpower View Post
    100% this should not be an LGBTQ issue. But it feels like one because the IAAF keeps making it one.
    I do not know whether the LGBTQ agenda is tied to this case because of the actions of the IAAF or the Semenya defenders.

    But it seems likely that if the IAAF restrictions are struck down, the next battle will be with those claiming that transgender athletes must be allowed to choose their event regardless of biology. What could once be dismissed as a weak slippery-slope argument now seems all too real.
    Last edited by wamego relays champ; 07-02-2019 at 04:39 PM.
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    #55
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    ???? ???? in Ronald MacDonald's Home Town, and once a Duck always a Duck.
    Posts
    12,064
    Quote Originally Posted by moreover View Post
    Twitter probably bans holders of the opposing point of view.
    Or more likely don't bother since little to gain against the Pro Semenya Twitter mob....
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    #56
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,405
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella2 View Post
    The problem I have with this ^^^ is she has been accepted as female with DSD by the vast majority of the established medical community and in law, whether the IAAF likes it or not. It isn't a straightforward topic I know, it is complex and it has many medical, moral and ethical considerations. However, the IAAF cannot try and undo something that has already been established i.e. that she is female with DSD, just because they have a different scientific view.
    If I am not mistaken, the "default" sex of human is female. At least that's how we are identified at birth. (Most intersex babies are identified as female at birth.)

    The problem is that when it comes to athletic competition, the default category should be the male, or what I should be renamed as the "open" division." The women's division should be considered a restricted category like U-20 or Masters. But that defies the dominant ideology of our society that treats human sex as binary (which it is not).

    I don't have any problem with intersex, transgender or even CIS female athletes competing in the "open" division, which is currently called the "male" division, just like I have no problem with an 18 yr old or a 41 yr old competing in the open division. I do have a problem with a 39 yr old competing in Masters. And that's how we should see the "female"category, in my opinion.

    As long as the society in general insists on the binary category of gender, most intersex people will be categorized as females. But that may not be the proper way to separate categories in athletic competitions. (Just for comparison, the eligibility rule for U-20 is not consistent with whether a person is treated as a "minor" in his/her country's law.)
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    #57
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    1,874
    Quote Originally Posted by polevaultpower View Post

    I don't know who needs to hear this, but being a butch lesbian does not make anyone run faster and it does not make them a man.
    If anyone needs to hear that, it would be lost on them anyway. Just like explaining why Semenya shouldn't be in a restricted division is lost on too many people.

    If looking any more masculine made one faster, I'd be planning new outfits for my next races, and I wouldn't shave my legs for the bike ride.
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    #58
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,405
    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary View Post
    Stella Walsh, who won a gold medal and several silver medals in track competing as a woman in the 1932 and 1936 Olympics, had male sex organs, according to an autopsy report released today. The report also said that Miss Walsh had no female sex organs.

    Chromosome sex tests were inconclusive, and further tests are being made.

    The report by the Cuyahoga County Coroner's Office was obtained through the courts by television station WKYC, which had been criticized for broadcasting a report questioning Miss Walsh's sex last month.


    https://www.nytimes.com/1981/01/23/s...ex-organs.html
    Do we know what Walsh's actual condition was? Did she have 5-ard like Semenya, or was it something else?

    And I have a few more questions.

    What do you think is the difference between Semenya and Dutee Chand?
    What do you think is the difference between Semenya and Maria Jose Martinez Patino?
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    #59
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,357
    Quote Originally Posted by polevaultpower View Post
    I have seen zero medical experts who consider Semenya male, outside of the IAAF "experts" and I have seen experts from many countries weigh in on this on Twitter. She is considered female by all of them.

    She may well be a female who has too much of an advantage because of her intersex traits to compete fairly in the female category for sport, but it is not necessary to try and turn her into a man to say that.
    Thank you and exactly. I have seen the same stuff on Twitter - I follow you! - and have seen all the medical community stand firm in support of Semenya, including world experts from all over the globe, not just RSA. The posters on these forums are just too blinkered and narrow minded to understand and see this though.
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    #60
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,357
    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    Why are you only talking of MALE throwers, though? There are just as many female ones who are clearly overweight. You're picking on one sex and then accusing everyone else of sexual discrimination.
    To make a point, obviously.
     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •