Facts, Not Fiction

 
Page 8 of 10 FirstFirst ... 678910 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 91
  1. Collapse Details
     
    #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella2 View Post
    As for her advantage, yea it is in question. Because I have yet to see any scientific report that proves her DSD gives her an advantage. If this exists, please share it.
    The DSD provides absolutely no athletic performance advantage. The athletic advantage is from the XY and high T.

    Without DSD, the XY and high T would make Semenya an unambiguous man with external male genitalia. The DSD only provides the administrative advantage of enabling an XY individual to dispute their way into the women's division; it doesn't make them run any faster than if they didn't have DSD.
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    #72
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Goldsmith
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    Except the pool of such individuals is way too small for it to be anywhere nearly as competitive (and therefore as interesting to most fans) as either the men's or the women's division.
    yeah, it's a tiny group. The women's division exists because it's 1/2 the planet that would have no chance of winning otherwise. Being extra-inclusive into the restricted division defeats the whole purpose of the division.
    That's also why there are age classes that exclude a whole lot of people from the class, and the multiple para-classes - more people are going to compete and train if there is a chance at victory. Having a chance sure helps with the motivation even at elite levels.
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    #73
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    right here
    Posts
    16,062
    Quote Originally Posted by wamego relays champ View Post
    I do not know whether the LGBTQ agenda is tied to this case because of the actions of the IAAF or the Semenya defenders.
    Call me cynical, but I think Semenya, or the PR crew she hired, is deliberately trying to make it into an LGBTQ issue to earn sympathy points.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    #74
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    right here
    Posts
    16,062
    Quote Originally Posted by moreover View Post
    yeah, it's a tiny group. The women's division exists because it's 1/2 the planet that would have no chance of winning otherwise. Being extra-inclusive into the restricted division defeats the whole purpose of the division.
    That's also why there are age classes that exclude a whole lot of people from the class, and the multiple para-classes - more people are going to compete and train if there is a chance at victory. Having a chance sure helps with the motivation even at elite levels.
    And I don't think there could even be one intersex category that would allow for fair competition, since physical sex is a continuous variable. 99%+ of the population fits neatly into one of the two categories, but those who don't, can be 90% male or 90% female, and clearly the competition between those two subsets would not be fair. You'd have to separate the category into at least a few subcategories, which would make the pool in each even smaller. So small that I'm not sure it would be viable.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    Call me cynical, but I think Semenya, or the PR crew she hired, is deliberately trying to make it into an LGBTQ issue to earn sympathy points.
    I can't imagine it being accidental, unless a bunch of people jumped on the bandwagon and made it a cause. She's a she for sure, she's intersex, black, from a country with a racist background, she has a guy's hormones and other parts, she's fast, she looks butch, flexes after races, and a bunch of ignorant old white dudes are trying to ruin her career. The perfect LGBTQ cause cé·lè·bre.
    Last edited by trackCanuck; 07-03-2019 at 12:43 AM.
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    And I don't think there could even be one intersex category that would allow for fair competition, since physical sex is a continuous variable. 99%+ of the population fits neatly into one of the two categories, but those who don't, can be 90% male or 90% female, and clearly the competition between those two subsets would not be fair. You'd have to separate the category into at least a few subcategories, which would make the pool in each even smaller. So small that I'm not sure it would be viable.
    But there's also a wide landscape of talent level within the population of 100% undisputed men, and the same is true within the population of 100% undisputed women. The vast majority of either have no realistic hope of reaching the elite level.

    What makes the male vs. male and female vs. female competitions viable at the professional and Olympic level is that the most talented best trained individuals perform close enough to each other to make it interesting when pitted against each other. Whereas a DSD-only category wouldn't have much parity at the top levels; not enough of them around the world to have a competitive cluster at the top. Notice how Semenya always beat Niyonsaba who always beat Wambui.

    Not to mention that most DSD people just want to live their lives as male or female without anybody except their doctor and parents knowing anything about their DSD parts, so most wouldn't want to join any DSD-only competition.
    Last edited by 18.99s; 07-03-2019 at 01:34 AM.
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    #77
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    from an IP that never sent jazz that PM, never !
    Posts
    7,034
    I woke up this morning with a champagn glass in my hand, slipped on my silk smoking jacket , dialed my broker to purchase sweet crude , timber and mining rights and then relaxed my mind to think of how I can pee in the LGBTQ punch bowl.
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    #78
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Abilene, TX
    Posts
    2,150
    So you're saying user4 is woke?
    You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    #79
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sacramento
    Posts
    2,105
    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    But there's also a wide landscape of talent level within the population of 100% undisputed men, and the same is true within the population of 100% undisputed women. The vast majority of either have no realistic hope of reaching the elite level.

    What makes the male vs. male and female vs. female competitions viable at the professional and Olympic level is that the most talented best trained individuals perform close enough to each other to make it interesting when pitted against each other. Whereas a DSD-only category wouldn't have much parity at the top levels; not enough of them around the world to have a competitive cluster at the top. Notice how Semenya always beat Niyonsaba who always beat Wambui.

    Not to mention that most DSD people just want to live their lives as male or female without anybody except their doctor and parents knowing anything about their DSD parts, so most wouldn't want to join any DSD-only competition.
    Well said ... And that underscores why the issue is so emotional. If those who are DSD, intersex, or whatever puts them outside of the typical female category, are not allowed to compete in that category, their ability to compete as a professional is taken away. There is no way they could compete at the pro level in the men's category, so what do they do?

    That being said, I still believe it is proper to set the standards for female competition (xx & t level limits), and adhere to them. It's a hard issue, to be sure.
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    #80
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    A Temperate Island
    Posts
    7,598
    Quote Originally Posted by bobguild76 View Post
    We can say it until we are blue in the face (and some have), I wish Semenya well but believe she should not compete in the female category ... not because she is Semanya, but because she is xy with above the limit t levels. I would say that about any female athlete in any event, regardless of her body type or gender viewpoints.
    Do you think female athletes with PCOS whose testosterone levels are periodically above the limit set for DSD athletes should be forced to take medication to ensure their T levels are never above the limit?

    They are disproportionality represented in athletics, so it is not implausible that they could be getting an advantage from the high T levels, especially since XX is more sensitive to T than XY.
     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •