Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jc203 View Post
    I'm with Atticus here. Until someone can define exactly what "white" means we have no objective basis for categorizing people. No rational discussion can result.
    so that means Gary C should stop posting his "black history" series?
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    #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    I don't mind this discussion, however difficult it may to define race. Here's one reason why. Gary Corbitt posts about US black athletes in distance running, at which they have not been so successful, and nobody minds that - we actually like it.

    Discussing white sprinters is simply another variant of that argument, since US white sprinters have not historically been that good, since the days of Morrow and Sime. And we often see things like "first Asian to win a medal in ..." Its just another example of when things are different they are interesting.
    bambam is wiser and calmer than I am on this issue so I'll just quote him.

    I will repeat what I said earlier, though: Why/how so quick to say Obama was the first Black President if the enlightened sentiment of this thread is true? He's just some vaguely ethnic dude of indeterminate stock. Maybe I need to change what I tell my girls?! "Don't worry girls, the guys at T&FN say since we can't know for certain why you're so brown, we should just ignore it altogether!" Woo!
    You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!
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    #43
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    Are black Americans an ethnically homogenous group? No. Are white Americans an ethnically homogenous group? Also no. Are the groups fuzzy enough and do they have enough overlap between them that many people could belong to either or both groups? Yes. (Was Obama one of those people? Still yes.) Can you tell somebody's ancestry by looking at them? No.

    Would I pick a guy who looks like Eddie Tolan to run faster than one who looks like Boling? Absolutely.
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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by user4 View Post
    Great point, I'd like to see the ball bearing rebound test on every Olympic track from 1906 to 2016.
    I believe the actual name of that test is the coefficient of restitution test.
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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacksf View Post
    I think the original post was about fastest sprinter in terms of time. These days that means FAT times. Morrow, Sime, Patton, almost anyone from the 60s or before, are out of the picture because they ran hand times.
    So in that case, Boling has one of the fastest 100m times (FAT) amongst white American sprinters, but definitely not the fastest.
    There are auto times available for Morrow and Sime - not many, but from the Olympics at least and possibly the Olympic Trials - Richard Hymans might know. But again, as I said, and others echoed, the big problem with comparing Morrow and Sime are the tracks that they ran on - cinders, red clay. Remember Hayes in Tokyo - that was a red clay track and it was basically mud when he ran the 100 metres because it had rained all morning and the day before when Mills won the 10K
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    #46
    Still, although Morrow and Sime were definitely faster sprinters than Boling, by the watch Boling is faster. If you're making a list purely based on times, Boling is ahead of them. Yes, it's due to the difference in tracks and equipment, but nonetheless, on an all-time list his time is superior.
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    #47
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    I guess somewhat off topic - what were Morrow, Sime and Hayes for that matter doing back then that isn't being replicated these days? Are we TOO fixed on the weights? Morrow, Sime, Hayes and even Boling are very lean and are muscular, but they aren't massive/jacked.

    Have we gotten too cute with some of our training/philosophies?
    You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!
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    #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottmitchell74 View Post
    Have we gotten too cute with some of our training/philosophies?
    I'm pretty sure we haven't gotten 'cute' enough. I remember seeing how jacked-up Mo Greene was (and then there's Ben Johnson). All that weight work made him more powerful. Carl Lewis famously eschewed 'body-building', but I am convinced he could have been faster with more weight-room work. Everyone thinks building mass means weight-gain and inflexibility, but you actually CAN get faster as you get stronger, if you do it right.
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    #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LopenUupunut View Post
    Are black Americans an ethnically homogenous group? No. Are white Americans an ethnically homogenous group? Also no. Are the groups fuzzy enough and do they have enough overlap between them that many people could belong to either or both groups? Yes. (Was Obama one of those people? Still yes.) Can you tell somebody's ancestry by looking at them? No.

    Would I pick a guy who looks like Eddie Tolan to run faster than one who looks like Boling? Absolutely.
    Im too young to remember the good old days when an Englishman could think of 12 reasons not to consider a Frenchman or an Italian as a member of the Englishman's race. I long for the good old days!


    As for Eddie Tolan, at 5-6 I would have never predicted he could have won that OG 200m. But he held on down the home stretch, that was one for the ages.

    Carl Lewis, 1984 OG 100m final. Only Owens, Morrow and Hayes so dominated an OG 100m field but no one ever looked as perfect doing it.
    Last edited by user4; 06-29-2019 at 09:14 PM.
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    #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
    I'm pretty sure we haven't gotten 'cute' enough. I remember seeing how jacked-up Mo Greene was (and then there's Ben Johnson). All that weight work made him more powerful. Carl Lewis famously eschewed 'body-building', but I am convinced he could have been faster with more weight-room work. Everyone thinks building mass means weight-gain and inflexibility, but you actually CAN get faster as you get stronger, if you do it right.
    Thinking...you're right...as long as you do it right. (Johnson with his "implausible deltoid" and all).

    Still, there's something about watching those graceful lines of the more lithe sprinters.




    I forget, maybe because he's so tall, that Bolt is a MASSIVE human...lots of muscle.
    Last edited by scottmitchell74; 06-30-2019 at 12:04 AM.
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