Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #71
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    Another story that conveniently leaves out the key XY facts:

    https://www.npr.org/2019/05/01/71911...one-to-compete
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    #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary View Post
    A trans activist....there is a neutral observer...

    Semenya brings all the crazies out. ..
    Whoa. Your true colours showing there, son.
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    #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrJay View Post
    An appalling opinion piece. Unfortunately, we will be inundated with more of this, from people that have no understanding of the issue at hand, who simply want to turn it into a rant about sexism, racism, prejudice, the white power structure, etc. All of those things exist, big time, but are not the issue here. They just don't get it.
    It is not a good piece, I agree, but I would also say that some of those issues are most definitely at play here, and contributed to the conclusions reached. We all have preconceived opinions based on inbuilt prejudices, and we cannot untangle our objective mind from them easily. That's just the way it is. We're not robots, and it doesn't matter how expert you are, how learned you are, you will still have prejudices.

    As others have stated, we have not seen any proper explanation as to why the PV or HT are not included (unless I missed it..?) in which case, straight away you can see why some are critical of the IAAF decision and that it appears to be targeting Semenya & other African 800m runners. Had the IAAF acted their own research and put the limit across all the events highlighted then that might have helped with some peoples perceptions. As it stands, it clearly targets Semenya et al, therefore people are right to call this out as potentially racist prejudiced and about white power structures.
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    #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by trackCanuck View Post
    They could apply it to those events in 2 weeks or a year, and that has no bearing on science and fairness being the factors driving events now.
    Of course it does. It absolutely has bearing on fairness. If those events showed the evidence their research claims, you apply the limit to those as well. You don't wait a year. Why would you wait a year? Why?
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    #75
    Quote Originally Posted by DrJay View Post
    Yeah, ol' Chase Strangio (author of that wonderful op-ed rant) sure looks like a track and field expert to me:
    Don't hassle the Strang, his relatives are "well connected".
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    #76
    I actually cannot believe this debate.

    It basically got the "sex is a social construct, not a biological reality" crowd to make the argument that there may be health risks to injecting otherwise healthy people with sex hormones different from what their bodies produce naturally.
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    #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella2 View Post
    Of course it does. It absolutely has bearing on fairness. If those events showed the evidence their research claims, you apply the limit to those as well. You don't wait a year. Why would you wait a year? Why?
    What was being addressed was an insinuation that the IAAF is not really concerned with being fair. This entire issue is about fairness, in the form of a level playing field in events where certain athletes have a distinct and addressable advantage. It is not about anything else, like going after Semenya because they have an issue with her in particular. To hint at that, as many writers do, is hogwash and a diversion from the real matter. So yes they can wait til hell freezes over to apply the rules in the pole vault, and the field will be leveled in the events currently being dealt with.

    I don't know why they haven't applied it yet in field events, but I don't know of any athlete that has drawn scrutiny in the pole vault and hammer.
    Last edited by trackCanuck; 05-02-2019 at 12:14 PM.
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    #78
    Quote Originally Posted by beebee View Post
    Punishing and ostracizing someone for something they have zero control over is the very definition of discrimination.
    Except that this is not a punishment. Athletes can't elevate T levels, now they can't maintain levels that are too high. Nor does this fit the definition of a punishment. These athletes are being told to modify their T levels. If these levels never helped them in the first place, they will run as fast. If they did, they will run slower and stop gaining an unfair advantage. Nor is she being ostracized, nobody is saying she cannot compete.
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    #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella2 View Post
    It is not a good piece, I agree, but I would also say that some of those issues are most definitely at play here, and contributed to the conclusions reached. We all have preconceived opinions based on inbuilt prejudices, and we cannot untangle our objective mind from them easily. That's just the way it is. We're not robots, and it doesn't matter how expert you are, how learned you are, you will still have prejudices.

    As others have stated, we have not seen any proper explanation as to why the PV or HT are not included (unless I missed it..?) in which case, straight away you can see why some are critical of the IAAF decision and that it appears to be targeting Semenya & other African 800m runners. Had the IAAF acted their own research and put the limit across all the events highlighted then that might have helped with some peoples perceptions. As it stands, it clearly targets Semenya et al, therefore people are right to call this out as potentially racist prejudiced and about white power structures.
    This kind of reasoning makes leaps that put Beamon to shame. This is why I said it is so disappointing to see gay/trans commentators almost to a person completely blinded and either unable and/or unwilling to stop viewing everything through these lenses that most of the time are entirely irrelevant and grossly distorting of the issue.
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    #80
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