Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiederganger View Post
    Hopefully when we get to Doha any other women competing in the 400/800/1500/400mh wont face some of the snide comments we've seen on other topics, as they would be eligible to compete.
    For this season, with the ongoing contention in the courts, we can't assume that everybody competing in Doha has already had the relevant tests done prior to Doha, especially if they've never competed in the Diamond League before this season, neither placed high enough to be tested in a prior World Champs or Olympics.

    And if the Swiss court's final ruling is still pending during Doha, the IAAF probably will do nothing about any XY DSD medalists who've been tested for the first time in Doha, until after the Swiss court's final ruling is issued. Even then, for the sake of privacy and avoiding legal battles over medal reallocations, the IAAF may still do nothing about those medalists, except tell them they can't compete with their high testosterone levels next season.

    So unless the Swiss court's final ruling is issued before Doha, we can have no assurances of the underlying eligibility of athletes in Doha who are new enough to elite international competition that they've not been tested yet in a way that would reveal results to the IAAF (so NCAA testing wouldn't count, for example).
    Last edited by 18.99s; 07-31-2019 at 10:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiederganger View Post
    Hopefully when we get to Doha any other women competing in the 400/800/1500/400mh wont face some of the snide comments we've seen on other topics, as they would be eligible to compete.
    That's assuming they have all been examined for hyperandrogenism. I don't think that assumption is true.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
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    The bottom line is, do not make an assumption based on a woman's appearance or results until you know the facts. I think that is the best approach .
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    Quote Originally Posted by moreover View Post
    The steeplechase seems the most logical event for Semenya and Wambui if they want to compete in championships in the future assuming ruling holds and they don't want to do the hormone treatment. Clearing the ladies hurdles would be so easy for their long legs. One drawback for Wambui is Kenya is the most competitive country. Niyonsaba would more logically fit in the 5000. Don't think any of them have 200 speed.
    Of course, if one of these became unbeatable in the event, the event would be added to the protected event lists. Unbeatable in those events would also mean world records because of the current high quality.

    Steeplechase is for natural hurdlers. In America parlance, "people who have hops"

    Semenya could try the heptathlon
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    I think the heptathlon would not be allowed, because it includes 800m.
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    I admittedly vacillate on how to handle this issue but my current stance is...I want her (and those like her) to "burn it down" so to speak. We might be seeing this VERY soon in the 400. I want it all to burn and expose this nonsense as the insanity that it is. I want to take it to its logical conclusion: non-women dominating every event...so we can get back to regularly scheduled programming at some point. I want it so bad and so obvious that there is an uproar with even casual fans.
    You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottmitchell74 View Post
    I want to take it to its logical conclusion: non-women dominating every event...so we can get back to regularly scheduled programming at some point. I want it so bad and so obvious that there is an uproar with even casual fans.
    Or an even bigger distortion of the issue by various special interest groups.
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    I was on twitter the other day and I saw a promoted tweet from the ACLU saying that biological males should be allowed to compete in girls events no questions asked and I audibly groaned in my cubicle.
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    PDF press release from the Swiss court: https://www.bger.ch/files/live/sites...e_09_54_21.pdf

    It's not the final decision, but the way this part is worded would make it shocking if Semenya prevailed in the end (bolding is mine).
    The Swiss Federal Supreme Court further points out that its power of review in cases of international arbitration is very limited and, as a general rule, only involves examining whether the contested decision is compatible with fundamental principles of public order ("ordre public"). It stresses that this also applies in the field of sport and that the Swiss Federal Supreme Court is by no means a "Supreme Court for Sports", which could examine the matter freely.

    On this basis, the Swiss Federal Supreme Court concludes, in a first summary examination, that Caster Semenya's appeal does not appear with high probability to be well founded. The CAS, after thoroughly evaluating the expert evidence, found that the "46 XY DSD" characteristic has a direct impact on performance in sport, which could never be achieved by other women. Thus, with the participation of a female athlete with "46 XY DSD" in the "protected class women", a basic principle of top-class sports, namely fair competition, is disregarded from the outset. The Swiss Federal Supreme Court is bound by this finding regarding the impact of "46 XY DSD" on performance. In the light of the arguments put forward by the CAS after extensive and thorough examination, namely the integrity of female athletics, neither the allegation of an infringement of the principle of non-discrimination, nor the alleged violation of "ordre public" due to an infringement of their personality and human dignity appears with high probability to be well founded. For the same reasons, ASA's request must also be dismissed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JumboElliott View Post
    I was on twitter the other day and I saw a promoted tweet from the ACLU saying that biological males should be allowed to compete in girls events no questions asked and I audibly groaned in my cubicle.
    I think the powerlifting transgender who broke a bunch of women's lifting records a few months back would accomplish more is generating some common sense into the entire scenario if the athlete decided to challenge the stripping of her records and medals.
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