Facts, Not Fiction

 
Page 59 of 67 FirstFirst ... 9495758596061 ... LastLast
Results 581 to 590 of 663
  1. Collapse Details
     
    Quote Originally Posted by moreover View Post

    This from AthletesCAN (paragraph 115), what are Canadian national female athletes thinking, "self-identification"??:
    The DSD Regulations are premised on "very rigid binary ideas about sex and gender", while the rest of the world has gradually shifted to "more nuanced recognition of gender: self-identification".
    Presumptuous arrogant and manipulative. Oh and should I add utter bullshit ? They do not speak for "the rest of the world". They don't even speak for Canadian athletes.

    Knowing when to be ashamed is nothing these people are in step with.
    Last edited by trackCanuck; 06-23-2019 at 08:43 PM.
    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    right here
    Posts
    16,027
    Quote Originally Posted by trackCanuck View Post
    Presumptuous arrogant and manipulative. Oh and should I add utter bullshit ? They do not speak for "the rest of the world". They don't even speak for Canadian athletes.
    I wonder if they asked Melissa Bishop's opinion.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    I wonder if they asked Melissa Bishop's opinion.
    She's not stupid enough to express her true feelings in public. Just look at what happened to Lynsey Sharp.
    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    I wonder if they asked Melissa Bishop's opinion.
    They'd consider that a trivial operation. Kind of sickening some of the garbage that universities are promulgating these days.
    Last edited by trackCanuck; 06-24-2019 at 01:35 PM.
    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Woodland Park, CO
    Posts
    7,568
    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    If somebody is 2 weeks too old for the cutoff of an age-restricted category (or two weeks too young, such as in masters), there's no big debate or legal battle over who possesses a material advantage from the additional two weeks of age. They just can't compete in that category, period.

    If the governing body of the sport had to use performance data to prove the advantage, it probably would be impossible to find statistically significant performance differences for that sort of difference in age.

    But if the male and female divisions are going to continue be separate and viable, the line has to be drawn somewhere, and there's more than one place where the line may be reasonably drawn. As long as the line is drawn in some zone within the universe of reasonableness, the sport's governing body shouldn't have to prove that those just over the edge of the line have advantages over athletes on the other side of the line.

    XY+male-range T should be enough to disqualify from the women's division without further ado. Attempting individualized analysis to determine which of the XY+high-T athletes have or don't have a material advantage would be like trying to determine if somebody 2 weeks over the age cutoff has an advantage. Wherever the line is drawn, proof of an advantage just isn't feasible for edge cases. Moving the line will always result in somebody just over the edge who doesn't agree with being placed on that side of the line, unless you move the line so far that everybody is on the same side of it, which effectively means the line wouldn't exist.
    Best post so far. Can close the thread with that one.
    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    Quote Originally Posted by DrJay View Post
    Best post so far. Can close the thread with that one.
    Yes, except that it will have to be re-opened when the Swiss court issues a final opinion.

    (That having been said, I doubt that anything the Swiss court says will change your mind or mine about what 18.99s wrote.)
    Last edited by tandfman; 06-24-2019 at 03:33 PM.
    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    from an IP that never sent jazz that PM, never !
    Posts
    6,888
    When grown educated men can't figure out or have the strength of mind to state what a woman is , friends that is when we are doomed. We are doomed.
    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    A Temperate Island
    Posts
    7,569
    Self-identification is somewhat relevant in that anyone who identifies as a man is free to compete in the men's category with minimal hoops to jump through.

    How Caster perceives her gender is not particularly relevant. What is super relevant is that the medical community has deemed her female since birth, and continues to do so. The only people calling her a man are the quack scientists the IAAF has paid off and the men with hot takes on the internet.

    She is not transgender and the continued efforts to treat her as such are gross. You are being a bad human being when you do that.

    Is it possible that in sports, we need to draw the line for sporting sex somewhere different than the medical community does? Sure, that is possible.

    But the IAAF has proven over and over that they don't actually care about who has an athletic advantage. This is about their perception of what is good for the sport, and Caster looks and acts too manly to compete as a woman.

    Their own data shows that women with PCOS, who have high T levels, sometimes even over the 5 nmol/L limit, are overrepresented in sport.

    In the case of DSD athletes, their overrepresentation in sport is a sign they have an advantage. But in the case of athletes with PCOS, this advantage is dismissed away because they appear more feminine.

    I honestly don't think most people involved with this issue or discussing it online truly care about what is an unfair advantage in sports. I think it comes down to a whole lot of people taking issue with the perception that butch lesbians dominating an event. They don't look womanly enough for you, therefore they must BE a man.

    Remember that much of this DSD policy was originally driven by Dolle, who was simultaneously accepting bribes from dopers.

    There are legitimate reasons to be concerned that some DSD athletes may fall too close to biologically male to fairly compete as a woman. Maybe that is Caster and maybe that isn't. But if you cannot have that discussion without calling Caster "he" you are not part of the solution.
    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    A Temperate Island
    Posts
    7,569
    Quote Originally Posted by user4 View Post
    When grown educated men can't figure out or have the strength of mind to state what a woman is , friends that is when we are doomed. We are doomed.
    Excuse me? Why the hell is it the job of old men to define what a woman is? We are doing just fine without your help, thanks.
    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    Quote Originally Posted by polevaultpower View Post
    I honestly don't think most people involved with this issue or discussing it online truly care about what is an unfair advantage in sports. I think it comes down to a whole lot of people taking issue with the perception that butch lesbians dominating an event. They don't look womanly enough for you, therefore they must BE a man.
    I can't speak for "most people" discussing this online, but I can assure you that I care ONLY about what is an unfair advantage in sports and I do not care at all about these women's appearance or their sexual orientation.
    Reply With Quote
     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •