Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    I don't recall specifically which drug Savinova and Poistogova were busted for, but I've wondered what their testosterone levels were vis a vis Semenya.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuariki View Post
    And finally; we can now say it.

    He is a man!!!

    So says the IAAF.

    No need to tip toe around this subject anymore.
    Ms Bishop is, IMO, the reigning Olympic champion
    Looks like IAAF is going to have to be that blunt at some point. From the new article on the front page: "Marie Demetriou, a lawyer specialising in equality law and human rights, told the court the DSD regulations give rise to direct sex discrimination under UK and EU law because they apply only to women and not men."

    The natural counterargument is that the DSDs covered are not women, so no there is no application of the DSD regs to women at all. Of course, there can be a woke judge or law that declares a person female just by them stating it, which the IAAF can do nothing about but anticipates in all their presentations.

    I think Semenya, Niyonsaba, and Wambui would have difficulty finding competitors in events cherry-picking countries that would overrule the IAAF regs based on anti-discrimination law. Would guess it would be a tiny group of countries. But I don't know what Ajee Wilson or Melissa Bishop or Ms. Sharp would do if that came to pass. If I were an elite female 800 m runner, I would not seek out those races but could always be bought.

    IAAF might have to go to the logical extreme that I think many of us support, which is just to get rid of the drug treatment option to overinclude in the female category. Then there can be no argument that there was anything required of females not required of males.
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    I'm not sure referring to Caster Semenya as a man really sheds positive light on the referrer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotDutra5 View Post
    I'm not sure referring to Caster Semenya as a man really sheds positive light on the referrer.
    I don't think the IAAF has used those words. What's been reported is that they argued in court that Semenya is biologically male. There is a difference. I think it is accurate to say SHE fails to qualify for the female category. If Semenya sees herself as a female then do not hurl an insulting pronoun. I see no reason why a person should be forced to call themselves something they are not comfortable wearing. But it is right to say "Madam, this category is restricted and you do not qualify."

    The IAAF should be able to define their categories without being told to alter them in order to accomodate individual perceptions of gender identity.
    Last edited by trackCanuck; 06-23-2019 at 12:41 AM.
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    This debate should have an extremely narrow focus of what biological features disqualify an individual as eligible for athletic competition in a female category.
    Extending it beyond that is counterproductive and at times bordering on offensive.
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pego View Post
    This debate should have an extremely narrow focus of what biological features disqualify an individual as eligible for athletic competition in a female category.
    Extending it beyond that is counterproductive and at times bordering on offensive.
    Agreed. The question then is, what features should disqualify. It still seems to me that XY and/or T levels above a prescribed limit should be the two disqualifying features. For all events.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pego View Post
    This debate should have an extremely narrow focus of what biological features disqualify an individual as eligible for athletic competition in a female category.
    Extending it beyond that is counterproductive and at times bordering on offensive.
    It should be about biology. It has become as much about a slew of (dubious) human rights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotDutra5 View Post
    I'm not sure referring to Caster Semenya as a man really sheds positive light on the referrer.
    We all have our opinion in what is a very divisive issue. I am comfortable with my position.

    When I was in a position to do so, that is in being able to influence government policy and law, I have always fought for the rights of the LGBT transgender.

    However that support ceases when it comes to non women competing in sport as a woman.

    semenya does not meet the definition of at least what I consider a woman to be. I'm on the side of the millions and millions who have been discriminated against be the PC brigade who are destroying women's sport by allowing non women to compete as a woman.
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    This debate is becoming schoolyard shit. A bunch of guys from the 20th century bullying someone who considers themselves a woman, as if your opinion matters most. Welcome to 2019 men...you're going to lose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebee View Post
    This debate is becoming schoolyard shit. A bunch of guys from the 20th century bullying someone who considers themselves a woman, as if your opinion matters most. Welcome to 2019 men...you're going to lose.
    No, it's not the men on this message board who are going to lose. Women are going to be the people who lose if the XY high-T DSD athletes aren't kept out of the female division.
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