Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Quote Originally Posted by moreover View Post
    That it's no fault of their own there was confusion about their bodies makes no difference to the classification.
    Right, and the "no fault" is what is played up over and over by everyone who refuses to see the bigger picture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trackCanuck View Post
    I could take a ton of flack for saying this, so what, but I do not like Caster Semenya. I think she is one of the worst things that ever happened to the sport of athletics. And very selfish and driven to get exactly what she wants, and the impact on however many other people be damned.
    I've felt the same way for a long time. She is showing pretty much the same attitude as Pistorius. Obviously I'm talking of the law suits only, not other aspects of their lives.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    I've felt the same way for a long time. She is showing pretty much the same attitude as Pistorius. Obviously I'm talking of the law suits only, not other aspects of their lives.
    It is the lawsuits that I find disgusting. First she shows up and tilts the playing field, then screams blue murder when it is ordered releveled, dragging everyone through the mud to get her way. Quite the sign of the times when wingnuts manufacture a sympathetic character from this.

    I suppose you could feel sorry for anyone given enough misinformation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trackCanuck View Post
    Quite the sign of the times when wingnuts manufacture a sympathetic character from this.
    Apparently I have wingnut tendencies.

    a. I do not think she should be allowed to compete against women with much lower T-levels.

    but

    b. She was raised as, and truly believed she was a woman, so what would you expect her to think? She's trying to defend her own interests, EXACTLY as the rest of us do.

    I DO have great sympathy for her position, while, at the same time, understanding it's not fair for other women to compete against her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
    Apparently I have wingnut tendencies.

    a. I do not think she should be allowed to compete against women with much lower T-levels.

    but

    b. She was raised as, and truly believed she was a woman, so what would you expect her to think? She's trying to defend her own interests, EXACTLY as the rest of us do.

    I DO have great sympathy for her position, while, at the same time, understanding it's not fair for other women to compete against her.
    I would hope she can understand how and why Mowgli came to realize he was not a wolf. It has been explained clearly, ad nauseum, and she does not give a shit.

    Believing you are something does not equate to being that thing, but if a lie is told often enough.... She lives as a woman in the sense that she performs traditional female roles, which does not mean she is physically female. Big difference.

    And her own interests conflict profoundly with a much larger interest, and I do not admire someone who is lacking in consideration for how this turns out for the sport, for women who have no hope of ever beating her or others in her position.

    Some of the wingnuts want to rally every person with any interest in defending any human right that could be imagined to be in violation in this situation, so we get quite a hodge-podge dancing under the same banner here. Reminds me of the adult babies in some of the gay pride parades. Or the same adult babies ranting against homosexuality from the luxurious safety of their church pulpits, hypocrites. I have a sister who is transitioning from female to male and I've been ten billion percent supportive of her choice to stop feeling wrong for no good reason and be happy. The Semenya issue has been twisted by so many people for so many bad reasons.
    Last edited by trackCanuck; 06-20-2019 at 03:21 PM.
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    trackCanuck, thank you for having the balls to stand up (here at least) and say with clarity and conviction what many of us here feel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrJay View Post
    trackCanuck, thank you for having the balls to stand up (here at least) and say with clarity and conviction what many of us here feel.
    Going against the grain may not win the most friends, but it would be a sorry day when I
    nod my head in agreement that the earth is a plane.

    Maybe I should apply for the female category in my next triathlon, I have hypogonadism....
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    I Have many of the same feelings towards semenya that trackcanut expressed. I
    Just donít get the right vibe from her. Sheís not a sympathetic character to me Athletically, and thatís what Iím at the tnf message board to chat about. Athletics.
    You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!
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    Quote Originally Posted by trackCanuck View Post
    I would hope she can understand how and why Mowgli came to realize he was not a wolf. It has been explained clearly, ad nauseum, and she does not give a shit.
    Your lack of empathy is noted.
    She is not a man.
    She was born with female genitalia, so of course she has always thought she was a woman. This is not the C Jenner case, where she 'identifies' as female; she (and the people around her) always assumed she was female.
    Over time, I'm sure it became apparent that she was not like other girls, but in this (mostly) binary world, she WAS a girl.
    For her to stand up for herself is laudable.

    Yes, WE would like her to understand that her advantage is 'unfair', but SHE is just fighting for acceptance of who she (and others) thinks she is. That is what ALL OF US DO.

    We need to see it from HER perspective, not our own.

    And I am one of those who does NOT think it's fair that she competes against women who have about 25% of the testosterone (my understanding) that she does.

    I have tremendous sympathy for her position; I'm really sorry she shouldn't compete with her current physiology.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    I've felt the same way for a long time. She is showing pretty much the same attitude as Pistorius. Obviously I'm talking of the law suits only, not other aspects of their lives.
    I conflate Pistorius and Semenya similarly, both seeking to compete in a category they are clearly not part of, relying on courts requiring proof/evidence of advantage that is at an impossible standard.
    Pistorius races were so different than the other 400ers. I thought he would pull off a 13/11/10/9 (in that order) split. Obviously not the same race as the other guys.
    Semenya is clearly in a different class than the competitors, seems to be racing at 90% rather than 100% (exception that bronze 1500), with such easy margin that the dominance could go on another decade.
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