Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JumboElliott View Post
    As a legal strategy, the narrow approach is smart. It will have to be gradually amended as the problem arises.
    This case took 10 years to finalize, assuming we are at the end of the process now (and I'm not sure we are). Should we really have to go through the whole thing again every time a hyperandrogenous athlete starts dominating in a different event?
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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella2 View Post
    Let's hope Semenya turns to the 200 or 5k, and runs 21.5 or 14:1, and the IAAF then have to start this again.
    Nothing she's done in any event remotely suggests these possibilities. Thank God.
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    #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    Should we really have to go through the whole thing again every time a hyperandrogenous athlete starts dominating in a different event?

    CAS called the DSD regulations a "living document", so it's probably fair to assume this judgement will cover future issues in other events, should they arise.
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    #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhall View Post
    The Panel found that the DSD Regulations are discriminatory but the majority of the Panel found that, on the basis of the evidence submitted by the parties, such discrimination is a necessary, reasonable and proportionate means of achieving the IAAF’s aim of preserving the integrity of female athletics in the Restricted Events.
    I like the rebuke of the people that think discrimination is always bad, as sexual divisions are themselves discriminatory and necessary. Bad discrimination is arbitrary and meant to hurt someone. If I rented bicycles and wouldn't rent to people obviously weighing more than 350 pounds or people who couldn't reach the pedals or blind people, I would be discriminating against those people, but rational and proportionate without malicious intent.
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by huntinwr View Post
    I can't see her being competitive with the best at 5,000. Lower her PR from 16:05 to 14:20ish?
    Hellen Obiri had a modest PB of 15:2x when she was a 1500m runner. Then she lowered her time by a minute once she focused on 5000m.

    If you move up from 800m to 5000m, the improvement could be even more drastic, although Semenya will probably have to lose a bit of weight to be competitive in 5000m.
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    #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN1965 View Post
    If you move up from 800m to 5000m, the improvement could be even more drastic, although Semenya will probably have to lose a bit of weight to be competitive in 5000m.
    But that's the point, she has more potential for improvement than Obiri did, if she switches her training and loses some of the bulk. And her 5000 races so far suggest the potential to run much faster already.
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    #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by trackCanuck View Post
    I'm not sure why Semenya and Navratilova have a problem with taking these drugs, since Navratilova didn't say why. Are they unsafe? Navratilova makes it sound like the drugs are a punishment; whether or not that was her intention, it's false.

    Why does Semenya not want to take them? If she was not gaining an advantage from her T levels, what's the issue? She won't slow down. If she does, maybe we can stop talking about "androgen insensitivity". Or maybe now that Semenya is XY this is moot.
    Taking hormone treatments is nasty to a body. This is as intuitively obvious as male advantage of females in athletics.
    Navaratilova misses that the IAAF is being generous to Semenya by letting Semenya compete at all as a female in any event, with or without handicapping. A rule defining the boundaries of female is far simpler than a drug treatment rule to include people outside the boundaries. The people who inhabit those boundaries are going to be the special cases that define the general rule.
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by moreover View Post
    Taking hormone treatments is nasty to a body. This is as intuitively obvious as male advantage of females in athletics.
    The advantage enjoyed by males is empirically and statistically obvious, and has nothing to with intuition. The effects of hormone treatments can be ascertained scientifically. I take medication for both thyroid and testosterone, and there is nothing nasty about either, because they've been thoroughly researched. Far from being harsh, the result of taking thyroid medication was a fast and significant increase in hemoglobin, red blood count , and hematocrit. All of these are a gift to someone who does triathlon.

    Regardless of what someone's gut may initially say about hormone treatments, the only thing that is worth looking at is the science. At this point, I don't know what drugs a person like Semenya is being asked to take, but it ain't impossible to find out and see what the research shows about efficacy, safety, etc.
    Last edited by trackCanuck; 05-01-2019 at 07:02 PM.
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    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by trackCanuck View Post
    Regardless of what someone's gut may initially say about hormone treatments, the only thing that is worth looking at is the science. At this point, I don't know what drugs a person like Semenya is being asked to take, but it ain't impossible to find out and see what the research shows about efficacy, safety, etc.
    According to the decision:

    Such reduction can be achieved, according to the IAAF evidence, by the use of normal oral contraceptives.
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    #40
    Noticed the CAS ruling mentions 400H and pole vault athletes with (testes/high testosterone levels). Have any athletes outside of Indian 100m and African 800m been previously mentioned ? Did I read that correctly?
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