Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Quote Originally Posted by polevaultpower View Post

    Thanks PVP, Bermon sounds like a sexist pig. I saw this article but didn't dig deep enough into it, but a little control-F turned up his ugly words.

    ".....there are females with a high level of testosterone but with perfect female, at least external perfect female phenotype. And they have no advantage at all, since they donít have any functional testosterone receptors. By the way, most of the time these are very beautiful females, and you can find them as models."

    This guy shouldn't be employed by the IAAF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trackcanuck View Post
    thanks pvp, bermon sounds like a sexist pig. I saw this article but didn't dig deep enough into it, but a little control-f turned up his ugly words.

    ".....there are females with a high level of testosterone but with perfect female, at least external perfect female phenotype. And they have no advantage at all, since they donít have any functional testosterone receptors. By the way, most of the time these are very beautiful females, and you can find them as models."

    this guy shouldn't be employed by the iaaf.
    thank you!!!!!!!!!
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    Thank you for pointing to that source.

    I think it should be clear what is disgusting in that quote, but I'll detail it a bit anyway for the possible benefit of anyone who may not get what is so repellent . When someone thinks they know what constitutes physical perfection, and then talks about women who have it externally but not internally, they are playing God. To top it off, he thinks he's paying them a compliment by saying some are models. Enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by polevaultpower View Post
    Feel free to disagree with the paper, but it contains an accurate recounting of Dr Bermon's presentation.

    https://academic.oup.com/jcem/articl.../E1055/2536727

    Here is the paper he co-authored on the 4 athletes who the IAAF paid to make their vaginas look "normal"
    Reading all the mental gymnastics employed by all sides of the debate, I keep liking my simple proposition more and more. Except a few possible outliers that could be dealt with individually, this would cover just about all cases in question. Here it is again.

    "Athletes in possession of active, functional testes shall not compete as women."
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pego View Post
    Reading all the mental gymnastics employed by all sides of the debate, I keep liking my simple proposition more and more. Except a few possible outliers that could be dealt with individually, this would cover just about all cases in question. Here it is again.

    "Athletes in possession of active, functional testes shall not compete as women."
    Should you add "with functional testosterone receptors" ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by trackCanuck View Post
    Should you add "with functional testosterone receptors" ?
    The support that an athlete has no functional testosterone receptors is where the problematic invasive inspection and genital surgeries come in. There's not simple test to demonstrate the complete AIS. Agree with Pego, the simpler is better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by moreover View Post
    The support that an athlete has no functional testosterone receptors is where the problematic invasive inspection and genital surgeries come in. There's not simple test to demonstrate the complete AIS. Agree with Pego, the simpler is better.
    I thought complete AIS could be diagnosed noninvasively, and the difficult invasive thing was the determination of which athletes with partial AIS have a material advantage from their high testosterone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    I thought complete AIS could be diagnosed noninvasively, and the difficult invasive thing was the determination of which athletes with partial AIS have a material advantage from their high testosterone.
    Yes, we are in complete agreement.
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley
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    Pego has it boiled down to its essence..lets go with that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf View Post
    Pego has it boiled down to its essence..lets go with that.
    That would be too easy for some, and not allow/cause the drama their agenda requires.
    You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!
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