Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    tax rates [split]
    #1
    The marginal tax rate is way too low for the very rich. Seriously, these people have way too much money.
    Last edited by Dave; 11-11-2019 at 12:39 AM.
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    #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    The marginal tax rate is way too low for the very rich. Seriously, these people have way too much money.
    Unless they stole it...says who?
    You there, on the motorbike! Sell me one of your melons!
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    #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    The marginal tax rate is way too low for the very rich. Seriously, these people have way too much money.
    Please define "very rich", either with a number or a range of $$. And then what the appropriate tax rate should be. And what constitutes way too much money. Thank you.
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    #4
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    It is difficult to define "rich". I am reminded of a late friend, a very successful independent oil man in OKC, with mansion on country club golf course in OKC, winter golf home at Green Valley in Tucson, ski-out lodge at Vail, new Caddy every year.... bought two high-rise condos across street from the other in Pompano Beach (lived in condo on Atlantic side, kept his boat at condo on inter-canal side) .. spent a couple of winter's there, playing golf at ritzy country club... gave it up.. said he felt like a "pore boy" down there
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    The marginal tax rate is way too low for the very rich. Seriously, these people have way too much money.
    I don't know how rich Mr. Zhao was (is), or how he earned his income. But based on his background, I suspect most of that comes from his investment. If that's the case, the problem is that his capital gain is taxed at a lower rate than regular income. He was probably also able to take advantage of numerous deductions that usually favor high income people.

    The problem with rich people and tax is not the marginal rate, but the effective tax rate. Most people in the top 1% pay a lower rate than middle class people. I don't think anyone denies that Warren Buffett is "very rich." And his effective tax rate is lower than his secretary's. Whether you think that's a problem is up to you.
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TN1965 View Post
    The problem with rich people and tax is not the marginal rate, but the effective tax rate. Most people in the top 1% pay a lower rate than middle class people.
    Top 1%, not really. That's around $300K/year for individuals, which includes lots of doctors, lawyers, and corporate managers who pay ordinary income tax on their salaries at higher marginal tax rates than the middle class.

    Top 0.1% is where you get into the realm of making more money from lower-taxed investment income than ordinary income, and esoteric tax shelters and loopholes that are too expensive/complex/unknown for middle class people but are worthwhile for people with very high levels of income and/or wealth, who can pay lawyers, accountants, and finance experts to manage the intricacies without running into trouble with the IRS.
    Last edited by 18.99s; 11-13-2019 at 06:52 AM.
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    #7
    IRS studies disagree. The Top 1% may not pay the nominal tax rate but they still have an effective rate above the middle class. You can find anecdotal examples like Buffet and his secretary but thatís is the exception to the rule.
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Halfmiler2 View Post
    IRS studies disagree. The Top 1% may not pay the nominal tax rate but they still have an effective rate above the middle class. You can find anecdotal examples like Buffet and his secretary but thatís is the exception to the rule.
    The IRS numbers for 2017 were just released:

    The Top 1% had 21% of the Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) but paid 38% of the income taxes. Their threshold was $515K of AGI.

    The Top 5% had 37% of the AGI but paid 59% of the income taxes. Their threshold was $208K of AGI.

    The Top 10% had 48% of the AGI but paid 70% of the income taxes. Their threshold was $145K of AGI.

    The bottom 50% pay only 3% of the income taxes.
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    #9
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    There are lots of taxes people pay other than income taxes....but who cares....
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary View Post
    There are lots of taxes people pay other than income taxes....but who cares....
    And lots of income that doesn't show up on personal tax returns (especially for the top 0.1%), like unrealized investment gains and C-corp business profits.
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