Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotDutra5 View Post
    Whatever the reason, the distribution is very very likely much more broad than it has been in the past which always has me question a player in any sport who played 100 years ago as being considered the best. It just makes no sense to me and is likely based on the fact that a lot of the competition he was facing was much lesser comparatively then we see today and have for the last 50-60 years.
    yes and most of that difference you see as improvements are due to the methods of training, pharmacology, knowledge of the science of the sport and professional management of the sport.

    They lived in a time when they had the benefits of the rich invigorating healthful benefits of tobacco and we live in a time where a 3$ jar of over the counter pills can reliever the most horrible shoulder pain.

    Just think about how different your life is today compared to how your life would be if you were born in 1885 ? Everything you do today from sun up to sun down is made better and easier because you were born into a science and technology and knowledge paradise. If I watched you get from Boston to Baltimore in 1915 and then compared it to your effortless journey in 2015 would I think to tell you what a talentless fool you were in 1915? You would rightly call me a blind imbecile if I did.
    Last edited by user4; 02-08-2019 at 10:58 PM.
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    #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    How many home runs would William's and Mays have if they hadn't missed years to serve in the military?
    Ted Williams' averages two years before and prior to WWII:

    150 games 36-124-.360-.669

    So, if we figure he's then same player during those three years that's 108 HR and 372 RBI (not to mention 546 hits)

    His averages before and after Korea were:

    113 games with 29-99-.332 with 131 hits per season.

    He played in some games in 52 and 53, but missed 1.72 seasons. If his 29 and 99 averages held for the remainder of the two missed seasons he missed out on 50 HRs and 170 RBI and 225 hits. That's a grand total of:

    158 HR
    542 RBI
    771 Hits

    That would bring his totals in those categories to:

    677 HR (#5 now)
    2381 RBI (#1 now)
    3425 Hits ( #8 now)

    ** It's also very possible Mays would have gotten to the Babe before Aaron. It's very reasonable to think he missed 55 HRs to Korea, giving him 715 the year before Aaron.
    Last edited by scottmitchell74; 02-08-2019 at 11:40 PM.
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    #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by user4 View Post
    yes and most of that difference you see as improvements are due to the methods of training, pharmacology, knowledge of the science of the sport and professional management of the sport.

    They lived in a time when they had the benefits of the rich invigorating healthful benefits of tobacco and we live in a time where a 3$ jar of over the counter pills can reliever the most horrible shoulder pain.

    Just think about how different your life is today compared to how your life would be if you were born in 1885 ? Everything you do today from sun up to sun down is made better and easier because you were born into a science and technology and knowledge paradise. If I watched you get from Boston to Baltimore in 1915 and then compared it to your effortless journey in 2015 would I think to tell you what a talentless fool you were in 1915? You would rightly call me a blind imbecile if I did.
    It's the distribution of talent I'm referring to not the improvement in players.
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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by beebee View Post
    No one in American team sports history can match Russell's 11 Championships out of 13 seasons.
    I view those titles with a grain of salt, because the NBA didn't have a salary cap back then, so a rich team could stack the roster with big stars and build a long-running dynasty. I am more in awe of Jordan's 6 titles in the era of the salary cap, with his ability to win with robots like Bill Cartwright and Luc Longley as starting centers.
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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    I view those titles with a grain of salt, because the NBA didn't have a salary cap back then, so a rich team could stack the roster with big stars and build a long-running dynasty. I am more in awe of Jordan's 6 titles in the era of the salary cap, with his ability to win with robots like Bill Cartwright and Luc Longley as starting centers.
    It's true that it was a lot easier to keep pro teams in tact in Russell's era but it had everything to do with the fact that there was no free agency and nothing to do with the fact that there was no salary cap. Remember, there's always been a draft, which means bad teams have always had the means to improve. Also, the NBA has had a salary cap since 1984, which means Jordan played his entire career under a salary cap. Before free agency, if a team was fortunate enough to acquire a bunch of hall-of-famers through the draft (eg. 1960's Celtics, 1960's Packers, 1970's Steelers, Big Red Machine, etc.) that team owned those hall-of-famers until death do they part.

    To understand the effect free agency (and TV) has had on pro sports salaries, all you have to do is look at the effect it has had on salaries. In 1965, before pro sports had salary caps or free agency, Willie Mays, Bill Russell and Jim Brown made $125,000, $100,000 and $60,000 respectively at a time when the average household income was about $7,000. Today, in the age of the salary cap and free agency, Mike Trout, Aaron Rodgers and Lebron James all make over $30 million at a time when the average household income is about $83,000.
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