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    #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tandfman View Post
    They might get some pushback from the locals on that. The marathon is a very popular event in Japan and holding it in the middle of the night may not be seen as a good idea by the Japanese organizers.
    i should have specified IOC as the responsible decider, at least along with IAAF.

    And on further thought, security/surveillance concerns may rule out a night time race for Tokyo. Such concerns may be allayed in Doha by a controlled access course.

    This is an issue in today's news. The recent severe heat wave with scores of deaths in Tokyo and surroundings has been at least something of a wake up call.

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...-counter-heat/

    I don't think the 7 a.m. marathon start is a particularly good solution. Humidity is at maximum and temperatures and sun will be rising as athletes are the most stressed.

    I can see a non-trivial possibility that one or the other of the races will not be able to be held as scheduled.

    As for Tokyo '64, those games were held in mid-October specifically to avoid the summer conditions.

    Tokyo '91 is a more pertinent comparison, and I addressed it in previous post in this thread.
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    #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by player View Post
    i should have specified IOC as the responsible decider, at least along with IAAF......
    when it comes to the marathon, I think you'd find that Japanese TV gets 51% of the vote.
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    #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by player View Post
    I don't think the 7 a.m. marathon start is a particularly good solution. Humidity is at maximum and temperatures and sun will be rising as athletes are the most stressed.
    This is simply wrong. What do you mean by 'humidity is at maximum'? I presume that you mean that the relative humidity is highest then. But that is not the measure of humidity, which is the dew point - the amount of moisture that the air holds. In fact, relative humidity of 100% has a hidden bonus because the 'mean free path' of a photon is shorter which means that the sunlight is blocked to some degree. Do you have any indication that the dew point is much higher at dawn - I do not think so.
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    #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26mi235 View Post
    This is simply wrong. What do you mean by 'humidity is at maximum'? I presume that you mean that the relative humidity is highest then. But that is not the measure of humidity, which is the dew point - the amount of moisture that the air holds. In fact, relative humidity of 100% has a hidden bonus because the 'mean free path' of a photon is shorter which means that the sunlight is blocked to some degree. Do you have any indication that the dew point is much higher at dawn - I do not think so.
    I'm not really an expert on dew point because it is a stat rarely used for weather here. Isn't it the case that it could be 50F (10C) and raining and the actual humidity figure would be very high but the conditions for marathon running would be very good while it could be 70F (21C) and dry with slightly lower actual (but still high overall) humidity and the conditions would be poor for marathon running because the moisture in the air would undermine the body's ability to cool itself down by sweating?
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    #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26mi235 View Post
    This is simply wrong. What do you mean by 'humidity is at maximum'? I presume that you mean that the relative humidity is highest then. But that is not the measure of humidity, which is the dew point - the amount of moisture that the air holds. In fact, relative humidity of 100% has a hidden bonus because the 'mean free path' of a photon is shorter which means that the sunlight is blocked to some degree. Do you have any indication that the dew point is much higher at dawn - I do not think so.

    I'll pass on a humidity debate. Suffice to say that I think the Rome '60 and L.A. (men's ) '84 approach of starting in the early evening and finishing in gathering darkness would be better for the athletes. If you want to take that as having more to do with the setting sun, that's fine.

    But, that's not the choice that was made by the IOC and, as indicated, I recognize that security concerns may play a role.

    The possibility of daylight saving time for the games that has been reported would make a 7 a.m. start effectively a 6 a.m. start, or even 5 a.m., with either a one or two hour adjustment apparently being considered. That would make some difference.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...heat/37150627/
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    #76
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    First, when the temperature is in the 50s, the dew point is in the 50s or lower, so is not too much of an issue. Related, even though it is raining the relative humidity does not need to be 100% and usually is not. For instance in the three periods with rain in Madison the temp/dewpoint were 64/62, 67/64, and 77/64. It is only a relative humidity of 100% somewhere up in the clouds and for thunderstorms, that could be as high as 10,000m.

    In general, the dew point is a vastly better statistic and RH because: 1) it stays pretty constant except for when fronts move in so the readings at noon are a good indicator of the reading at 3pm; 2) as the temperature rises a degree, the relative humidity reading drops by about 3% so if your RH reading is from a couple hours before with the same dew point but with the temperature 5 degrees warmer, the relative humidity is 15% off. For instance in Madison today there are three readings with the same dew point of 59 with temperatures of 61, 73, and 76; the RH is 93%, 62% and 56%. People routinely say idiotic (in fact) things like "it was 95 degrees with 95% humidity, which implies a dew point of 93.6, a level never reached in the US and very close to the record ever recorded of about 95 degrees.

    As to the LA 1984 marathon, the temperature profile in LA near the coast peaks fairly early in the day and then can start dropping as the hot temperatures inland causes the hot air to rise and the lowering of the pressure draws in the cool air to the west, and for LA the 'west' means over the ocean, and that water is about 60 degrees (15C). You are also getting a bit more of a cooling breeze. That race also went pretty fast, around 2:25, going from memory which was probably a top-10 mark and maybe a top-5 mark in history (albeit short at that point); it was a pretty strong field with Waitz, Kristensen and Mota. I do remember laughing at some people at the road races that were saying it was very humid because they were so close to the ocean -- a 60 degree ocean (surface temp) is much different than an 80+ ocean.
    Last edited by 26mi235; 07-31-2018 at 07:11 PM.
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