Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #11
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    Tuariki: you may have been ass-backward as a LJer but I agree with every aspect of your post here 😀
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    #12
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    Assuming # 42 in the pic is Hubbard, I would like to see a pic of the woman who beat him.
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    #13
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    Obviously the woman in the picture is the basketball player.

    Here's Laurel Hubbard:
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
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    #14
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    #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    Jeez Bambam, you gotta stop doing this. It's taken me all day to get my blood pressure down low enough to be in calm enough state to respond.

    Quote Originally Posted by inside the games
    The HRCNZ claimed those questioning Hubbard’s selection were wrong and that she has been selected on merit. There is no valid reason to exclude trans women from competitive women's sports. Laurel is a woman - not a man masquerading as a woman to gain medals or glory," Taine Polkinghorne, a human rights advisor for sexual orientation, gender identity and sex characteristics for HRCNZ, said.
    Sorry Taine Polkinghorne, Hubbard was not selected on the merit of being a woman because Hubbard has never been a woman and never will be a woman. The day that Hubbard has the biological attributes of a woman, you know, the little things, a womb, a uterus, a few eggs here and there, then I will accept that Hubbard is a woman.

    Quote Originally Posted by inside the games
    "She is an incredible athlete, who has met the International Olympic Committee (IOC) regulations related to acceptable testosterone levels that enable her to compete in sporting competitions.
    Gavin Hubbard was never an incredible athlete as a male weightlifter. But hey presto, abracadabra, chop, chop, and the politically correct HRCNZ says he is a woman. I’m sorry; but chopping off your gonads and taking a lifetime regimen of drugs does not make one an incredible female athlete. IMO, Hubbard is no different from Nadia Upchuck, in terms of drug taking; but at least Upchuck can reportedly claim to have actually started out as a woman. These days, I am not so sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by inside the games
    "Participation in sport and physical activity is a human right.
    I agree. But that doesn’t mean Hubbard has a moral and ethical right to be competing as a woman. Because, in my biased, narrow (admittedly extremely narrow) point of view, a woman is a person with certain desirable attributes, none of which, Mr. Hubbard has.

    Quote Originally Posted by inside the games
    "So long as their testosterone levels are consistent with those of athletes assigned female at birth, trans women do not pose an unfair advantage in sports."
    What a bloody pathetic joke. I agree wholeheartedly that birth is the determinant, and at birth Hubbard had a thing called a penis, a couple of other things called testicles. He did not have a vagina, a uterus or a womb. He was a little BOY!!
    I guess that under these IOC rules, Usain Bolt could just drug himself to get to acceptably low testosterone levels and then go out and do a treble, treble in the women’s 100, 200 and 4x100.
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    #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by inside the games quoted by Tuariki
    "So long as their testosterone levels are consistent with those of athletes assigned female at birth, trans women do not pose an unfair advantage in sports."
    And this is at the center of the misunderstanding. Testosterone levels are far from being the only determinant between the genders.
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley
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    #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pego View Post
    And this is at the center of the misunderstanding. Testosterone levels are far from being the only determinant between the genders.
    That's true, I guess, but even in terms of testosterone, it could be explained why Hubbard should not be allowed to compete in the women's category: her body received a lot more of it over the years, crucially during puberty, which caused her body to be formed differently from a 'normal' woman's.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
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    #18
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    Take a few drugs and Kareem could come back in the 2020 women's dream team; with according to the IOC, no advantage whatsoever over a normal woman.
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    #19
    Its interesting that the trans-gender lobby says here that the lowered testosterone levels are proof that she has no advantage in sports. Yet in the cases of Semenya and Dutee Chand they say that elevated testosterone does not confer them an advantage, which seems contradictory. Taking that further it would seem that testosterone levels have no bearing at all on sports performance, and therefore, it (and its anabolic analogues) should be removed WADA's banned list. You can't have your argument every way you want it in each situation.
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    Its interesting that the trans-gender lobby says here that the lowered testosterone levels are proof that she has no advantage in sports. Yet in the cases of Semenya and Dutee Chand they say that elevated testosterone does not confer them an advantage, which seems contradictory. Taking that further it would seem that testosterone levels have no bearing at all on sports performance, and therefore, it (and its anabolic analogues) should be removed WADA's banned list. You can't have your argument every way you want it in each situation.
    "Transgender lobby" and "intersex lobby" are not made up of identical people. There are some overlaps, but each has its own agenda.
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