Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    If CeCe Telfer's performance after transitioning is any indication, this athlete at the University of Montana is a probable contender for a women's NCAA title on the track in 2020.
    Say what? She's barely quicker than I was in high school.

    https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/-/447780

    If Eastwood does anything around the same level we can look forward to a 4:20 1500.

    So, why the fuss?
    Last edited by trackCanuck; 08-27-2019 at 11:43 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trackCanuck View Post
    Say what? She's barely quicker than I was in high school.
    And then won a women's NCAA title right after transitioning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    And then won a women's NCAA title right after transitioning.
    Must have been some tough competition.

    23 MAY 2019 NCAA Division II Ch., Kingsville, TX USAUSA F H1 1. 58.18
    25 MAY 2019 NCAA Division II Ch., Kingsville, TX USAUSA F F 1. 57.53

    https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/-/447780

    She wasn't even at the NCAA finals.

    https://dt8v5llb2dwhs.cloudfront.net...1_compiled.htm

    When we're getting excited about a 57.53 400 hurdles, might be time for a new hobby.
    Last edited by trackCanuck; 08-27-2019 at 01:09 PM.
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    Telfer won a Division II title. Your link points to Division I.

    As a man, Telfer was outside the top 200 in Division II.

    The point is that these athletes after transitioning immediately jumped from outside the top 100 or 200 of their division and event as men into the top 2 as women.

    And it's not just about these athletes in particular; it's about how the gender transitioning does not remove all the advantages of going through puberty as male, and that their examples provide warnings of how a top 20 or even top 50 male could obliterate elite women if they similarly transitioned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trackCanuck View Post
    Must have been some tough competition.

    23 MAY 2019 NCAA Division II Ch., Kingsville, TX USAUSA F H1 1. 58.18
    25 MAY 2019 NCAA Division II Ch., Kingsville, TX USAUSA F F 1. 57.53

    https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/-/447780
    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    Telfer won a Division II title. Your link points to Division I.
    My link points to ......what's behind Door number 2 ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post

    The point is that these athletes after transitioning immediately jumped from outside the top 100 or 200 of their division and event as men into the top 2 as women.
    Top 2 among what? Not worthy of any form of journalism. Her times are half decent for high school. She won some titles because they were awfully weak competitions.
    Last edited by trackCanuck; 08-27-2019 at 02:42 PM.
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    Your cloudfront link points to Division I.

    As Craig Telfer, his performance relative to men was much much worse than CeCe Telfer's performance relative to women. Telfer went from outside the top 200 of Division II men to a champion among D-II women, and good enough to crack the top 12 of Division I women.

    The important issue at hand is not Telfer the person, it's the precedent and principle which can be exploited by a more capable man to obliterate women at the elite level. Telfer's times in the women's 400mh were less than a half-second away from his best times as a man. Imagine what at a 50-flat male hurdler could do to the women's record after transitioning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    Your cloudfront link points to Division I.
    I copied and pasted a link to the IAAF site and then copied and pasted information from there which reads :

    NCAA Division II Ch., Kingsville, TX , which is where that meet took place. What link are you referring to?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post

    Telfer's times in the women's 400mh were less than a half-second away from his best times as a man. Imagine what at a 50-flat male hurdler could do to the women's record after transitioning.
    As is the "way of the world", people will sit up and take notice IF and WHEN that happens, not a moment before.

    Meantime it is the stuff of message board chat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    Your cloudfront link points to Division I.

    As Craig Telfer, his performance relative to men was much much worse than CeCe Telfer's performance relative to women. Telfer went from outside the top 200 of Division II men to a champion among D-II women, and good enough to crack the top 12 of Division I women.

    The important issue at hand is not Telfer the person, it's the precedent and principle which can be exploited by a more capable man to obliterate women at the elite level. Telfer's times in the women's 400mh were less than a half-second away from his best times as a man. Imagine what at a 50-flat male hurdler could do to the women's record after transitioning.
    We don't know what Telfer's T-level was, and how long that level was sustained before the championship. If I am not mistaken, there is a wide range in how an individual responds to medication. So one person may experience far less feminization than another, even if they are on the same medication. (And NCAA does not even regulate that.)

    There is no question that the current NCAA rule is highly flawed. There has to be at least the upper limit of T-level for eligibility as a starter. But if anything, Eastwood's performance will give us more data to craft a better policy, if NCAA is interested in pursuing that.
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