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    Quote Originally Posted by TN1965 View Post
    How do you disqualify them without violating their privacy?
    How do you require athletes to pee in a bottle in front of an observer without violating their privacy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN1965 View Post
    How do you enforce this? Mandatory chromosome tests? At what age do you start? Some younger athletes may not even know that they have DSD. How do you disqualify them without violating their privacy?
    Those are excellent questions, TN1965. How invasive is a chromosome test? Since we already require urine samples at top level meets, can that also reveal XX or XY? Not having a medical background, I don't know. But once XX or XY is established, it won't change.

    The WADA already require (some? all?) world-class athletes to have biological passports, and once again, that would presumably yield XX or XY information.

    In the case of trans athletes, there is no need to speculate.

    Good questions.
    Last edited by bobguild76; 08-31-2019 at 12:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN1965 View Post
    But high school or youth athletes were not tested back then. Do you want to start that now?
    That's for the respective national ruling bodies, I guess. I suppose it would not be practicable to test every single girl competing at any level, but perhaps at least the participants in national championships should be?
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
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    Quote Originally Posted by tandfman View Post
    How do you require athletes to pee in a bottle in front of an observer without violating their privacy?
    I don't think the chromosome test itself is invasive. But making the result public is highly problematic, especially if the athlete in question did not know about her DSD in advance. So there has to be a way to secretly disqualifying an athlete without the public knowing the true reason for disqualification. I don't know how that can be done.

    I know there are people like Hanne Gaby Odiele and Eden Atwood. But it was their choice to be open about their DSD. That should not be forced on anyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN1965 View Post
    I don't think the chromosome test itself is invasive. But making the result public is highly problematic, especially if the athlete in question did not know about her DSD in advance. So there has to be a way to secretly disqualifying an athlete without the public knowing the true reason for disqualification. I don't know how that can be done.
    That's one argument in favor of doing those tests early in athletes' career. Few people will ask questions if a teenage athlete suddenly disappears from the stage.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    That's one argument in favor of doing those tests early in athletes' career. Few people will ask questions if a teenage athlete suddenly disappears from the stage.
    On the other hand, there is greater chance that a young athlete does not know about her own DSD at a younger age. That eliminates the possibility of voluntarily withdrawing from competitions. An older person is also likely to be more mature to handle the situation. I think this is a very tricky question.

    Of course, none of this matters in the case of transgender athletes. Speaking of which, June Eastwood just had the first cc race of the season. (7th place with 14:33 for 4km.)

    https://goeags.com/documents/2019/8/...INWResults.pdf

    I think there are two ways to think of this situation.

    One is to think it is okay as long as she does not "outperform" her former self.

    The other is to think it is a problem as long as she takes away anything of value from another athlete, because this is essentially one way street. (An FTM transgender athlete is not likely to take anything away from another male athlete.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN1965 View Post
    On the other hand, there is greater chance that a young athlete does not know about her own DSD at a younger age. That eliminates the possibility of voluntarily withdrawing from competitions. An older person is also likely to be more mature to handle the situation. I think this is a very tricky question.

    Of course, none of this matters in the case of transgender athletes. Speaking of which, June Eastwood just had the first cc race of the season. (7th place with 14:33 for 4km.)

    https://goeags.com/documents/2019/8/...INWResults.pdf

    I think there are two ways to think of this situation.

    One is to think it is okay as long as she does not "outperform" her former self.

    The other is to think it is a problem as long as she takes away anything of value from another athlete, because this is essentially one way street. (An FTM transgender athlete is not likely to take anything away from another male athlete.)
    Once again, you bring up some excellent points. In the case of trans athletes, I would fall in the latter group you mentioned, in that June Eastwood is taking a position on the team that someone else should fill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN1965 View Post
    Of course, none of this matters in the case of transgender athletes. Speaking of which, June Eastwood just had the first cc race of the season. (7th place with 14:33 for 4km.)

    https://goeags.com/documents/2019/8/...INWResults.pdf
    Eastwood was 46th in the men's race of that meet in 2017.
    https://runsignup.com/Race/Results/5...608;perpage:50
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    Eastwood was 46th in the men's race of that meet in 2017.
    https://runsignup.com/Race/Results/5...608;perpage:50
    Still, given the recent performance, you can end the talk about possible "NCAA title contender."
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    The issue is not whether Eastwood is a contender for the NCAAs.

    The issue is that a bloke should not be allowed to compete in a women's event.
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