Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by toyracer View Post
    He's going to have to be very careful with that knee from now on. The ACL is one thing; those meniscus tears (and presumed resulting removal of material) are what can play havoc with the knee's natural pivoting action.
    So the question now is - when he is fully recovered, can he train as hard as he needs to, to approach 43-low again? Is this the end of his quest for sub-43? Or 19-low in the 200? I am usually an optimist in cases like this, but I kinda feel he can be good again (maybe even mid-43), but never 'amazing' again. Sure hope I'm absolutely wrong.
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    #22
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    so does WVN have an incredible tolerance for pain, or is a horrific knee injury not as painful as I would have thought it is, given that the accident was in South Africa and he wasn't scheduled for surgery until a few days later in Colorado?

    (serious question)
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    #23
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    seen plenty of these during my 40 some years as a PT. Couple of days with knee immobilized, no wt bearing, meds and ice can make it tolerable for a while.
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    #24
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    meds and ice? I usually take mine neat :-)
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    #25
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    My guess is we've seen the best of WVN. Wouldn't bet the farm on it, but I'd bet the Toyota.

    And, while it's feels so disappointing for him, and as a fan....what a fricking stupid thing to do! My son is not an Olympian but is trying to be the best sprinter he can be in this his senior year in HS. He hasn't been on his mountain bike in two years. If he skied last year it was maybe one day, if that, and he will not ski this year at all, even on green runs (and he is comfortable on double-blacks)....why take the chance? What....a....stupid....injury.
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    #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedoorknobbroke View Post
    Just wondering...do you think D. Allen is as good as he would have been had he not been injured? I think he is not.
    Maybe. Maybe not. He finished 5th in the Olympics after the first one. That should be considered elite which was the question being answered.
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    #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by americantrackfan View Post
    Pretty sure this case is generally regarded as an example of the effectiveness of HGH and roids by those who have any knowledge of the human body and and PEDs. No one comes back that quickly.
    Whatever AD did would be available to WVN....possibly more.
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    #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gh View Post
    so does WVN have an incredible tolerance for pain, or is a horrific knee injury not as painful as I would have thought it is, given that the accident was in South Africa and he wasn't scheduled for surgery until a few days later in Colorado?

    (serious question)
    My son (mentioned earlier in the thread) had the ACL tear and miniscus damage and didn't have the surgery for at least 3 weeks. He was walking around quite normally with the injury.

    What this board needs for this subject is someone with some orthopedic training to chime in.
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    #29
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    I have lit the Bat-Signal for that expert's help.
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    #30
    A long post coming up, correcting some things said and adding some other things:

    “Medial and lateral tears of the meniscus” – almost certainly what was meant was “tears of the medial meniscus (inside of knee) and lateral meniscus (outside of knee)” These are the floating cartilage of the knee. If the ACL recon is done well, WvN may have more long-term problems from the meniscal injuries in the knee. In addition, not discussed, and only the operating surgeon (see below as to who this is) knows this, the worst scenario would be if had concurrent articular cartilage damage, which is very common. This is a set-up to develop early osteoarthritis and could severely limit his recovery.

    Are you ever 100% after an ACL reconstruction? I used to tell people, when they asked if I could make their shoulder “as good as normal” (=100%) – “I’m very good at this, but I am not as good as the guy who made it in the first place.” No matter how good your results, things that are reconstructed after a major injury are almost never 100%

    Can WvN come back to top level 400 running? Yes, I think he can. Will he be as good as he was before? I predict he will not be quite as good, but he could be very close. He has an advantage that he is not in a cutting sport (basketball, football, tennis, skiing), where much more stress is placed on the ACL. On the other hand, turn running may be slightly harder for him than the straights.

    Now, remember my sub-specialty was shoulder/elbow surgery. In the early years of my practice (circa 1990-95) I did do ACL surgery. When people were able to start running, I would tell them to go to track and run the straights, and walk the curves.

    EGH asking why WvN did not have the surgery immediately: it almost never needs to be done immediately. There is controversy in the sports medicine world about whether it should be ASAP or some people prefer to delay it a few weeks, letting the swelling go down, with the rationale being that it is then easier to get your motion back post-operatively. In terms of WvN having abnormal pain tolerance, that is not necessarily so. Again, many people have this surgery delayed.

    Is this the same injury that Abbey d’Agostino had? Abbey had an ACL tear – I don’t know if she had concurrent meniscal injuries or not. Her surgery was done by a good friend who was formerly the New Orleans Saints team doctor – he posted some questions about it on our Hawknotes message board (that’s a message board shared by former fellows of Richard Hawkins of the Steadman-Hawkins Clinic in Vail. The guy did his fellowship out there with Hawk. I also did my fellowship with Hawk, but in Canada. I was his last fellow before he moved to Vail to start the clinic with Dick Steadman).

    WvN had his surgery done at the Steadman Clinic in Vail (formerly Steadman-Hawkins – it is a very sore point with Hawk’s former fellows that the name was changed). So almost certainly it was done by Robert LaPrade, who is now the main sports knee orthopaedist there, and a highly respected sports medicine knee surgeon. Dick Steadman has been retired for several years now and sadly suffers from somewhat advanced Alzheimer’s. (Rich Hawkins also retired last year)

    I think I got most of the stuff that was discussed. Fire away with any other questions.
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