Facts, Not Fiction

 
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 44
  1. Collapse Details
     
    #11
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    west of Westeros
    Posts
    60,687
    Richard had the 100m splits because that's what was reported in TN at the time. (In fact, it's a great chart, showing the 100-by-100 comparison between Ryun and Herb Elliott)
    Reply With Quote
     

  2. Collapse Details
     
    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by gh View Post
    Richard had the 100m splits because that's what was reported in TN at the time. (In fact, it's a great chart, showing the 100-by-100 comparison between Ryun and Herb Elliott)
    That's what I meant about Richard's notes....I assumed he got them from you guys.
    Reply With Quote
     

  3. Collapse Details
     
    #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    477
    Thanks to everyone with their info and interesting anecdotes. Much appreciated.
    I have heard that the LA track was newly laid for that meet in 67, but the idea that it was converted to a 400m one is not one I'd heard of or considered.
    The only problem with this theory, is that in the book I have, "The Milers", by Cordner Nelson and Roberto Quercetani, which I presumed was mainly based on extracts from editions of T&FN (?), is that they use yard splits while describing the race.
    It talks about Ryun going through 440yds in 60.9, which pretty much matches up to the 400m split for him given in the IAAF Progression of WRs book, 60.5.
    It goes on to say Ryun reaches 880yds in 1:57.0, which is a bit out from the 800m split Hymans gives of 1:56.0.
    Further, it says, "with 440 yards to go,..Ryun's time was 2:39.2"
    That means his last 440 was 53.9, which is equivalent to a 53.6 last 400m. But the IAAF book states his last 400m was 53.3!?
    The Nelson book then gives Ryun's splits for 210 yards from the 3/4 point, his last 320 yards, last 440, 880 and 3/4. The only metric splits he mentions is the last 100m (13.5) and the last 1000m (2:18.7).

    All in all, quite strange! It makes me wonder how accurate some of those splits are, when they don't all match up and both metric and imperial stats are given!
    Reply With Quote
     

  4. Collapse Details
     
    #14
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    west of Westeros
    Posts
    60,687
    My WAG about conversion to a 400 track obviously doesn't wash in reading the entire meet coverage.

    This was a meet a couple of years before I joined the magazine, so I can't cast any particular first-hand light on it, other than to notice that in that era, Track Newsletter also carried meet stories, and frequently/usually by a different author than that of the magazine piece. In this case, Dick Drake wrote the exhaustive TN story, and as noted, it has a nice chart of 100m splits. It also has Ryun's place at each of the split points. Knowing how persnickety dd was about accuracy of splits, I have to think they have some firm basis in fact, despite some of the inconsistencies you note.

    Cordner wrote the magazine story, and it's from a yards point of view (and becme the basis for the account in the Nelson/Quercetani book). Yet Cordner definitiely would have had the benefit of having seen the TN account before the magazine version went to press.

    My bottom-line guess is that the yard splits given by Nelson are pretty spot-on, but that the metric ones are somewhat iffy based on the elemental problems with finding such that you so meticulously cited.

    In the final analysis is that in the era before videotape, any and all splits are to be taken with some grains of salt. Anybody who has ever worked on a large split crew knows what I mean. There's a reason that official times sat right on the line, with no parallax, and records required 3 watches.
    Reply With Quote
     

  5. Collapse Details
     
    #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    477
    Thank you gh for taking the time to respond. Much appreciated.
    I tend to agree with you and feel the imperial yards splits are probably the more accurate if it was indeed a 440 yd track, as they'd have had a lot more experience of knowing where those marks were.
    Have you ever seen, or do you know if, a full taped version of this race still exists?
    It would be terribly depressing to think that such a great performance has been lost to history!
    Reply With Quote
     

  6. Collapse Details
     
    #16
    I talked to my father, who attended the meet where Ryun broke the 1500 meters record (and who is something of an expert on all things Ryun), and he says the track was definitely 440 yards.

    By the way, Dick Bank, who did the PA that day, is still alive and kicking and can probably answer questions about that meet.

    As for 400 meter tracks, the first one I remember in the LA area was probably at Mt. SAC in the late 1970's-- they hosted the national championships and I'm fairly certain they installed a 400 meter track for that. Cromwell Field at USC was built around 1980 and never had a 440 yard track; it was always meters-- so that was an early one in LA as well.

    A bunch of places got 400 meter tracks in the run-up to the 1984 Olympics where there was a lot of money and Mondo flying around here, and Arcadia High School changed its cinder track to 400 meters for their famous high school invitational around 1981 or 1982 (they didn't get an artificial surface until years later). So by the mid-1980's, 400 meter tracks were common here.
    Reply With Quote
     

  7. Collapse Details
     
    #17
    I can't remember seeing a 400m track in the US before the '70s, nor did I know of any. Of course, I didn't see that many tracks in those days, and we're talking about a long time ago, so my memory could be imperfect.
    Reply With Quote
     

  8. Collapse Details
     
    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by tandfman View Post
    I can't remember seeing a 400m track in the US before the '70s, nor did I know of any. Of course, I didn't see that many tracks in those days, and we're talking about a long time ago, so my memory could be imperfect.
    By the way, since we are being precise, there's at least one that certainly existed-- there was a 400 meter track at the LA Coliseum in 1932 for the Olympic Games.
    Reply With Quote
     

  9. Collapse Details
     
    #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Indian Territory
    Posts
    13,526
    If running a mile on a 440y track, what do the metric splits matter?
    Reply With Quote
     

  10. Collapse Details
     
    #20
    "Cromwell Field at USC was built around 1980 and never had a 440 yard track; it was always meters-"

    Cromwell Field had a dirt 440 track (felt more like cinders than, say, Compton or Fresno's hard clay tracks, plenty fast) in the very same spot as the newer 400m one laid in the 80s. Rink Babka would spray his near-200 ft. Discus throws onto it all the time, while Jack Davis would stop by to use SC's hinged-top practice hurdles. Runways were ground tire rubber, and the PV and HJ pits were composed of net bags bags filled with cut sponge pieces. Soft but abrasive.

    Edit: The post I quote above seems to have disappeared--one way to step away from being contradicted.
    Last edited by Jackaloupe; 09-07-2016 at 03:31 AM.
    Reply With Quote
     

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •