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    #11
    Greens are faster mostly because of better hybrid grasses and agronomy advancements. The better grasses have stronger root systems that allow the greens to be mowed much closer. When I played in the 1970s, the average green was cut at 1/4", while faster greens were cut at 3/16" - those were considered fast. Greens are now cut routinely at 1/8" and sometimes 3/32"

    There is an advantage to faster greens that pros like. Putts are more likely to go in when they are going slowly. On fast greens, putts are going slowly for a higher percentage of their course. This assumes you have a good enough touch to be able to handle fast greens. They can be very diabolical.

    Another problem with fast greens is that older courses were often built with many rolls and mounds in the greens but were designed for greens with speeds no more than 8-9 on the Stimpmeter. Now with speeds routinely up around 12-13, those greens are almost unputtable in many places. The prime example of this is Augusta National. I can assure you that, if the tournament was not called The Masters, the pros would go ballistic complaining about the greens at Augusta.
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    #12
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    I think it was Gary McCord who quipped about the Augusta greens, "they don't mow this green, they bikini wax it." Took a bit of googling to get it right. That got him banned from the Masters broadcast in future years. Stuffy group.

    edit: this has his account of what happened (scroll down a bit):
    http://www.golfdigest.com/story/myshot_gd0501
    Last edited by mcgato; 06-20-2016 at 10:02 PM.
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    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    He probably caused the ball to move. However, I thought it was ridiculous the way the USGA handled it. Once the referee, who was there, gives the ruling, I think that should be final and no penalty should have been given. I hate these television re-plays looked at by 1,000s of people 2 hours later.

    The way golf greens are now, with greens Stimping up around 14, it doesn't take much for a ball to wobble a little bit. You might have heard Nicklaus talking about Oakmont in 1962 - he said all the pros thought they were very fast, and they probably Stimped at about 9-10. I'm not sure, in the 1970s, I ever played on greens faster than 11 - maybe 12 at the 1973 US Amateur (Inverness), which were the fastest greens I ever played.
    Everybody who has never heard the word Stimp before, please raise your hand!
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    #14
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    My hand is raised.

    One of the higher ups at USGA just said they are reviewing the procedure and had they had to do it all over would have handled it differently.
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    #15
    A Stimpmeter is a device used to measure the speed of greens, designed by a guy named Edward Stimp in the 1930 specifically to measure the speed of the greens at Oakmont, which have always been considered the fastest greens in golf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimpmeter
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    #16
    Make that Edward Stimpson, sorry
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    #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by gh View Post
    Everybody who has never heard the word Stimp before, please raise your hand!
    We've used it HERE before. It's very much akin to the rating scale for tracks (how high the ball bearing bounces!). Both are measurements of 'speed'.
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
    We've used it HERE before. It's very much akin to the rating scale for tracks (how high the ball bearing bounces!). Both are measurements of 'speed'.
    Actually Atticus, the ball bearing bounces measures the coefficient of restitution of the track, i.e., how bouncy it is. The Stimpmeter is a measure of the green's rolling friction, which is quite different.
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    #19
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    I used to like watching Ren and Stimpty on TV...
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    #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    Greens are faster mostly because of better hybrid grasses and agronomy advancements. The better grasses have stronger root systems that allow the greens to be mowed much closer. When I played in the 1970s, the average green was cut at 1/4", while faster greens were cut at 3/16" - those were considered fast. Greens are now cut routinely at 1/8" and sometimes 3/32"

    There is an advantage to faster greens that pros like. Putts are more likely to go in when they are going slowly. On fast greens, putts are going slowly for a higher percentage of their course. This assumes you have a good enough touch to be able to handle fast greens. They can be very diabolical.

    Another problem with fast greens is that older courses were often built with many rolls and mounds in the greens but were designed for greens with speeds no more than 8-9 on the Stimpmeter. Now with speeds routinely up around 12-13, those greens are almost unputtable in many places. The prime example of this is Augusta National. I can assure you that, if the tournament was not called The Masters, the pros would go ballistic complaining about the greens at Augusta.
    Thank you.
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