Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
    Giving a guy his shoe doesn't strike me as providing an unfair advantage (he'd have to stop to put it on, and if he doesn't, he could tear up his feet). Helping a person up could allow him a faster time than if he'd risen himself.
    It's exactly the same: getting the shoe picked up by another competitor allows the runner a faster time than if he had to turn back and pick it up himself. Either both of the situations described are violations, or neither is.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
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    #12
    It the rare case when this does happen, losing a shoe during a race - I can only recall a handful of times in my 50 years with the track and field, maybe it happens more in CC - most officials I know would not call a violation. In a CC race it would also not likely occur nearby an official to be witnessed.

    In the given scenario, the runner who picks up the shoe and catches up to the runner who lost it: a) is looking around too much, b) is running too slow if he is able to speed up to return this shoe.

    And if this scenario happens way back in the pack or after all the points have been decided,
    No official would even think about calling this. Trust me.
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    #13
    My question mostly relates to cross country. In cross country there are so many different course layouts, terrains and conditions including, sometimes, a portion of the course that is repeated. For example, a course might go around the perimeter of a park 2 and a half times. A fast runner can catch up to and pass a slow runner on a portion of the course that is repeated. Shoes can come off in a mud puddle if not tied properly. Shoes these days are often very brightly colored and can, at times, be easily identified as belonging to a specific person. A slow runner could pick up a shoe, recognize who it belongs to, and wait for the "missing shoe" runner to catch up and then hand off the shoe. It sounds far-fetched, but life isn't always what you expect. Would you consider this situation a rule violation?

    I'm going to be writing about an incident (being somewhat vague on purpose so as not to expose the incident) and I want to get my rules and information correct.
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    #14
    Your vagueness makes it more difficult to offer answers as to whether this aiding led to an "unfair advantage" for the runner who gets the shoe back on. Which again, they would have to stop running to get the shoe back on. Good luck.
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    #15
    I understand and agree.
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    #16
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    Once it is picked up the running losing the shoe has lost the option of picking it up and disqualifying them is inappropriate - especially if it is a (multi-) loop course the runner loses the option of picking it up later. Unless they make a point of discussing it, a high school student who picks up the shoe is doing so on (a good) impulse and with virtually no time to think it through. Since the shoe was likely lost by a following runner not yielding enough space it is again inappropriate to penalize them as they certainly are worse off than if they have not been impeded by the other runner, and in general more accommodation is made when someone else's action has caused the problem in the first place (e.g., running inside the curb on the track or going outside the boundaries on an XC course when being pushed or jumping a falling runner.
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    #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach J46 View Post
    The few who make the bad calls are the ones we hear about and read about online.
    The one and only reason I became a meet referee was to make sure these people don't get the last say at a meet. (Too) many are tea-pot despots who just like acquiring and exercising authority. I find them pathetic. Sometimes a no-call is the exact right call.
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    #18
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    What Atticus said!
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    #19
    What LoneWolf said!!!
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