Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #21
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    Eventually he may realize he might have to move up to have more, long term success (as someone pointed out above) which is often a reality for kids who aspire to move onto competing in high school but particularly so in college.

    Recommendation if you are going to already do those much longer special endurance reps is to mix in some much shorter days as in 10m, 20m, 30m and eventually out further for flat sprints and short hills. Some programs limit their acceleration totals to 300m that are achieved over months with the highest numbers getting out to around 350m or so. For speed/velocity development though and this would place later in the training year they volumes can go higher: 500m-600m (the highest I've ever seen were 750-800m). Hills are useful for short acceleration power or longer for strength endurance: as short as 10m (though not for long) and out to 150-200m, with some programs going out as far as 300m on occasion.

    We had a similar discussion here a few years ago about 200m people but one method used by a lot of coaches is based upon the work of Dietrich Harre who said over-distance for an event is 10-20% over race distance so for 200m that's 220m-240m though I've seen quite a few programs for 200m athletes where they will occasionally go out to 300m and this will take quite a bit of time to get to in a short to long program that is. When these are done they are typically done for relatively low volumes as in 2-3x200m or 250m and maybe 2x300m done full out with very long rests of 15'+. The 100m/200m athlete at times will train short accels up to maybe 30-40m, some sprint work out to 50-60m, fly-ins of 30m build-up into a 20m-30m fly zone, some longer speed development training with speed change drills such as 20m hard/20m relaxed but still fast then re-accelerating for another 20m and then such training can go longer 30/30/30 and so on. Also to include speed endurance (one of the last things to train since it's dependent upon taking months to further maximal velocity as speed endurance quality will be based upon the velocity that can be endured) from 60-150m, special endurance I training of 150-300m and then lower intensity extensive tempo runs on the days between the sprint sessions.
    Last edited by cladthin; 08-03-2015 at 05:46 PM.
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    #22
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    Sounds like your son is dedicated to a track career. Good for him..and you.
    Just as DSKlauser posted, it can go both ways. He discovered his best distance was somewhere in the middle.
    Pre-puberty, my son was, like DSK, the fastest kid on the block..then, not so much. He had a classmate with distance running heritage who was dominating Middle School XC and being obnoxiously braggidocius about it.
    Quietly determined to silence the loudmouth, my son self-launched a distance training program that I am confident some here would consider ill-advised.Training with the third place finisher of a recent Boston Marathon (this was in the 70s) they would do 53 minute Sunday 10 milers. His training partner advised him to not run a marathon until he finished college. He is now 58 years old and long out of college but has never run a marathon.

    Short version.. although he could barely break 50 in the 440, my son became one of the top miler/two milers in Texas, running 4:10 in HS and 4:02 in college before ROTC and orienteering captured his interest. He finished third in the national military orienteering championship behind a Major, who my son said he could outrun but the Major was a better map reader. Apparently, the winner was better at both.

    This is probably why my initial response was, do both, find his niche.
    Last edited by lonewolf; 08-03-2015 at 04:57 PM.
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    #23
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    Just to add to ThinClad's excellent advice, the long ladder you outlined must be controlled for the intensity (how fast, and these should be timed) and how much rest in between, also timed. At this time of the year, this workout is not one I would use, especially for someone of training age as young as your son. Schedule your appt with the coach you mentioned before you go too much further. Good luck.
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    #24
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    Let me make something clear....

    I was talking about running cross country as a youngster starting out. In the foundation laying years, high school frosh/soph. Then move on. Not talking about sprinting seriously and running cross country.
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    #25
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    Tommy Smith and Lee Evens ran distance during a selected period of their annual sequence. This was guided by their coach of some notoriety - Bud Winter. It was not short distance either- reportedly up to ten miles. If memory serves, Lee Evans reportedly ran 1:52.xx ... in college. Tommie Smith ran pretty well too.

    The glaring difference is that these guys were in college, not HS. Could some sort of permutation 'fit' ... that's where coaching comes in. And the standard thinking is don't run em in longer runs as they lose their elasticity and 'pop' and weaken fast twitch. ... again - coaching. Bud Winter was a unique coach however.
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    #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by no one View Post
    Bud Winter was a unique coach however.
    From what I read he was 'sadist' in the style of Ryun's HS coach, which is to say, there's no such thing as easy day; there's only hard, harder and throw up till it's just stomach acid. That style works wonders for genetic work-load freaks.
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    #27
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    Ryun's coach was strict taskmaster who paid attention to one runner - I have that on good authority fro at least 2 runners from Kansas - at that exact time. Winter is just from reading and some of what I know from being recruited by SJS - at that exact time. Although I was not a sprinter - I did talk to em tho.
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    #28
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    SJs was a brief exchange - and the other (Kansas was/is a long term friendship)
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    #29
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    No no no to XC if he wants to be a sprinter, for serious biological developement reasons, muscle coding, motor unit recruitment etc yes to XC ih he wants to become a middle distance runner, good luck, Leo
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    #30
    Hello everyone.
    I am the "sprinter son" in question. I just joined the message board and have read all of your posts. The general consensus seems to be that I should not run XC by about a 2:1 majority. There are some out there who are saying that I should try running longer distances (beyond the 100m and 200m). I will agree my 200m seems to be my stronger event however, I did run the 400m 3-4 times this past season with my best time coming in at about 62.9. I am confident that with proper training geared towards the 400m I could have run 59 but that is still not a mentionable time. and yes I have tried the 1600 back in 8th grade with a horrendous time of 7:11 off of 15-20 miles a week.

    I would like to throw something out there that could spring up another discussion. My progression for the 100m and 200m looks something like this:
    7th grade: 100m 14.9 200m 29.8 (hand timed)
    8th grade: 100m 14.1 200m 27.3 (hand timed)
    9th grade: 100m 12.08 200m 24.38 (Auto timed)
    Although my times may not be remarkable I see massive growth between 8th and 9th grade track (probably common) and I am certain that with 2-3 more weeks I could have run 11.91 and 24.15. This gives me hope and confidence that with proper year round training I could beat my goals of running 10.69 and 21.58 by the end of my senior year. To many that may seem close to impossible for the skinny white boy from Woodland Park to do but that's where I am determined to go by any means necessary. Please keep voicing your opinions!
    Last edited by WP-panther-Sprinter; 08-04-2015 at 04:50 AM.
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