Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #11
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    So I;m watching BeeJay Lee running sub10.10, Andre DeGrasse running sub 10.10, there's the JC kid Thymes who was a 10.1 there, I;m thinking....damn!!!

    That's a lot of speed for one NCAA team. I also knew they had a 20.53 cat in Devonte Stewart. So I start thinking...

    Thinking...ya know if that team could run the perfect race they have the speed to break the NCAA record. TCU did not run faster guys in 1998.

    Just a thought.

    Noway did I expect anyone to....see see see what LSU did, huh huh??...and all that silliness...sheesh!!!!!

    Calm down guy, ok? Just a thought.

    As if I didn't know the history of the NCAA 4x1, I thought you knew better.

    From a pure talent aspect....

    San Jose State...Sam Davis 10.2m...Kirk Clayton 9.3...Ronnie Ray Smith 9.9WR...John Carlos 9.1WR
    Last edited by Dickson; 05-31-2015 at 08:22 PM.
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    #12
    Dixon, your problem is that you see 4x100 potential as purely the sum of open 100 PR's. I have never seen you post anything that indicates that you place any value at all on baton passing in this equation. Clearly, there have many collegiate teams that have the raw footspeed to run faster than TCU's 38.04, including teams at your beloved USC, but the fact that none have should tell you how critical baton passing is in this equation. I'm sorry that you're having such a problem stomaching the facts in the OP.
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    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    Dixon, your problem is that you see 4x100 potential as purely the sum of open 100 PR's. I have never seen you post anything that indicates that you place any value at all on baton passing in this equation. Clearly, there have many collegiate teams that have the raw footspeed to run faster than TCU's 38.04, including teams at your beloved USC, but the fact that none have should tell you how critical baton passing is in this equation. I'm sorry that you're having such a problem stomaching the facts in the OP.
    So I don't know about Stanford, the French, come on man. I ran the 4x1, ok?

    PASSING IS EVERYTHING~!!!!

    but....

    I don't care if the passes are the best in the history of passes, a HS team will not be breaking the WR. That takes speed and passing.

    OBVIOUSLY....it takes pasasing I'd think you'd know with my expereince I don't ever have to mention that. Ya wanna talk that Oregon WR 4x1 team with all those footballers?

    It isn't real obvious I was talking about...IF IF IF...they got great handoffs the speed was there, sure it was!
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Dickson View Post
    It isn't real obvious I was talking about...IF IF IF...they got great handoffs the speed was there, sure it was!
    But if the team doesn't have a coach who is willing to stretch the zone, they will never have great passes.
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    #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    But if the team doesn't have a coach who is willing to stretch the zone, they will never have great passes.
    Then they'll never break the record, no big deal, just a thought.
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    #16
    Arkansas' men added to its resume in the NCAA final yesterday with a time of 38.47. The OP has been edited to reflect this.
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    #17
    Before 2015, the Florida women had never run sub-43, but yesterday they did it for the third time this year winning the NCAA final with a time of 42.95. The OP has been edited to reflect this performance.
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    #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    We do have different mindsets because I can't relate to where you're coming from. Also, you're seriously projecting because I sure as hell don't have the agenda that you're accusing me of.

    It's a fact that USC has never run a sub-38.50, not opinion.

    However, in 2012 and 2013, Central Florida had perhaps the greatest collection of footspeed ever assembled and they failed to crack 43.00. Also, it is a fact that two "head coaches" were responsible for 71% of the performances, not opinion. I don't understand why that observation upset you so much.

    I'm willing to expand the list to the sub-38.60 club, but I don't know a sure way to include everybody. Besides USC, Alabama and Houston, what other schools would be added to the list?
    Sorry for the delay. I forgot my password.

    All accurate points you make, which i really respect.
    I will attempt to clarify mine. I admire UCF and Northwest Louisiana profoundly because there is no way in hell that such a collection of speed should ever be at those schools, given human nature and the nature of recruiting (gravitation toward "name schools"). I see it as profound vision, outkickng their recuiting coverage AND superb coaching by Caryl Smith and Leon Johnson respectively. Props was the intent -- sort of like a nation of 250,000 winning 4x100 gold in the Olympic Games.

    I have no problem with the head coach statement, because it is fact. You simply did not say that at first. When you say "coach", that implies to me the person who is actually training the group day-to-day, developing the marks, etc.

    As to your idea, I think it excellent. I think you could go either way. I can not think of any sub 38.60 that you have mentioned other than the Hogs this past weekend.
    I will try to search also.

    It might be easier to compare the sub 38.50 list to the sub 42.90 list since you already have that compiled and they are more comparable marks. that would work too.

    also, here is a somewhat complete list of men's 4x100 ncaa achievement historically:

    the numbers are:
    finals appearances/titles/cumulative points using current scoring system(10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1)

    LSU 24/8/168
    USC 25/9/156
    TCU 24/7/139
    Texas A&M 17/2/99
    Tennessee 18/2/96
    Florida 17/6/94
    Florida State 14/2/68
    Arizona State 14/-/58
    Clemson 12/-/57
    Auburn 13/-/53
    --
    UCLA 12/1/49
    Arkansas 9/2/44 (vacate 04 and 05??)
    Rice 7/-/36
    San Jose State 4/2/34
    Houston 9/1/30

    Texas 8/-/23
    Oregon 5/-/15
    Last edited by houstonian; 06-19-2015 at 01:25 AM.
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by houstonian View Post
    I admire UCF and Northwest Louisiana profoundly because there is no way in hell that such a collection of speed should ever be at those schools, given human nature and the nature of recruiting (gravitation toward "name schools"). I see it as profound vision, outkickng their recuiting coverage AND superb coaching by Caryl Smith and Leon Johnson respectively. Props was the intent -- sort of like a nation of 250,000 winning 4x100 gold in the Olympic Games.
    The difference between you and I is that you conflate sprinter recruiting and development with relay coaching, but I don't. You don't have to have a great collection footspeed to be a great relay coach, and just because you're great at recruitng and developing sprint talent doesn't mean you're a great relay coach. Great relay coaching is about maxing out the potential of the footspeed that you have. I applaud Smith for the sprinters she produced at UCF against tremendous odds, but I also have to criticize her for her below average relay coaching at UCF. What makes the Bahamian Golden Girls 2000 Olympic performance so special was not only did they have great footspeed against the odds, but they also had better relay coaching than the big nations with similar footspeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by houstonian View Post
    I have no problem with the head coach statement, because it is fact. You simply did not say that at first. When you say "coach", that implies to me the person who is actually training the group day-to-day, developing the marks, etc.
    Based on my original statement, this is a distinction without significance, since the head coaches that I alluded to are much more than administrators when it comes to the relays. Their fingerprints are all over those relay teams. At many other schools, the head coach totally delegates that responsibility to the assistants, but not these coaches.

    Quote Originally Posted by houstonian View Post
    As to your idea, I think it excellent. I think you could go either way. I can not think of any sub 38.60 that you have mentioned other than the Hogs this past weekend.
    I will try to search also.

    It might be easier to compare the sub 38.50 list to the sub 42.90 list since you already have that compiled and they are more comparable marks. that would work too.

    also, here is a somewhat complete list of men's 4x100 ncaa achievement historically:

    the numbers are:
    finals appearances/titles/cumulative points using current scoring system(10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1)

    LSU 24/8/168
    USC 25/9/156
    TCU 24/7/139
    Texas A&M 17/2/99
    Tennessee 18/2/96
    Florida 17/6/94
    Florida State 14/2/68
    Arizona State 14/-/58
    Clemson 12/-/57
    Auburn 13/-/53
    --
    UCLA 12/1/49
    Arkansas 9/2/44 (vacate 04 and 05??)
    Rice 7/-/36
    San Jose State 4/2/34
    Houston 9/1/30

    Texas 8/-/23
    Oregon 5/-/15
    Great info! How's this for irony? Before Pat Henry arrived in College Station, the Aggie men won two 4x100 titles, but in the 11 years since he's been there, they haven't son a single one.
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    #20
    With Saturdays forecast in Austin calling for 75 degrees, sunny and 0% chance of rain, I have a hunch that there will be some additions to this list weekend.
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