Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Powell View Post
    The book I'm referring to is the official stats handbook for the 2010 edition of the EC, only it's much more extensive than this year's version.
    So the only thing that made it a spanish book was the word "Barcelona" in the title?
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    #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by norunner View Post
    Seems to me there are two ways to settle this: We could ask aaronk's russian twitter lady, or, and this is a long shot but worth a try, you could look up the result in the official statistics handbook for Zürich 2014, which includes complete results for all ECs (in case you are too lazy to look it up or didn't download it: Finland DQ).
    The same book, though, gives us the following medal table...

    1974

    GDR 10 12 5
    URS 9 3 5
    GBR 4 3 4
    POL 4 2 4
    FIN 4 1 5
    FRA 2 2 0

    ...the following list of Finnish medalists:

    Ossi Karttunen 4x4: 74-3
    Markku Kukkoaho 4x4: 74-3
    Stig Lönnqvist 4x4: 74-3
    Markku Taskinen 4x4: 74-3
    800: 74-3

    ...and the following athlete listings:

    Taskinen, Markku 25.2.52 FIN 2 European Ch
    22y 4x4 3 3:03.57 ■

    Lönnqvist, Stig 12.4.49 FIN 1 European Ch
    25y 4x4 3 3:03.57 ■

    Kukkoaho, Markku 11.11.46 FIN 3 European Ch
    27y 4x4 3 3:03.57 ■

    Karttunen, Ossi 17.3.48 FIN 4 European Ch
    26y 4x4 3 3:03.57 ■

    Demarthon, Francois 8.8.50 FRA 2 European Ch
    24y 4x4 4 3:04.60

    Carette, Jacques 1.3.47 FRA 2 European Ch
    27y 4x4 4 3:04.60

    Nallet, Jean-Claude 15.3.47 FRA 5 European Ch
    27y 4x4 4 3:04.60

    Velasquez, Roger 11.12.43 FRA 2 European Ch
    30y 4x4 4 3:04.60

    For what it's worth, the French athletic federation's history people don't seem to think France medalled.
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    #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by norunner View Post
    So the only thing that made it a spanish book was the word "Barcelona" in the title?
    It was prepared by Spanish statisticians, and it's bilingual, Spanish+English. Great book, btw - some 1200 pages (and in a pretty large format), containing not just full results, but also detailed descriptions of competitions in all previous editions of the EC, with lots of pictures etc.
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_O_UNsKDZU8...%B3n+libro.JPG
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
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    #14
    Thank you Powell, i'm presuming you referenced from the AEEA publication. No i don't have a copy(see previous posts). Several sources show DQ'd but GBR Athletics lists them as 3rd.
    I watched the race via YouTube, with David Coleman's commentary but it has only a passing reference to some 'boxing match' out of view of the race.
    For norunner i do have a copy of Javala's 2014 EC Handbook and it does show dq'd.
    START lists for '73 show it as a valid performance.
    The plot thickens. Watson the needle.
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    #15
    The Ahletics Annual 75 shows Finland in third place in the 4x400 list with the time from Roma. The list has a separate section for DQ relays and it does not show Finland there.
    On a side note, that must have been a great final leg with both Jenkins and Honz running 44.3.
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    #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LopenUupunut View Post
    The same book, though, gives us the following medal table...

    1974

    GDR 10 12 5
    URS 9 3 5
    GBR 4 3 4
    POL 4 2 4
    FIN 4 1 5
    FRA 2 2 0

    ...the following list of Finnish medalists:

    Ossi Karttunen 4x4: 74-3
    Markku Kukkoaho 4x4: 74-3
    Stig Lönnqvist 4x4: 74-3
    Markku Taskinen 4x4: 74-3
    800: 74-3

    ...and the following athlete listings:

    Taskinen, Markku 25.2.52 FIN 2 European Ch
    22y 4x4 3 3:03.57 ■

    Lönnqvist, Stig 12.4.49 FIN 1 European Ch
    25y 4x4 3 3:03.57 ■

    Kukkoaho, Markku 11.11.46 FIN 3 European Ch
    27y 4x4 3 3:03.57 ■

    Karttunen, Ossi 17.3.48 FIN 4 European Ch
    26y 4x4 3 3:03.57 ■

    Demarthon, Francois 8.8.50 FRA 2 European Ch
    24y 4x4 4 3:04.60

    Carette, Jacques 1.3.47 FRA 2 European Ch
    27y 4x4 4 3:04.60

    Nallet, Jean-Claude 15.3.47 FRA 5 European Ch
    27y 4x4 4 3:04.60

    Velasquez, Roger 11.12.43 FRA 2 European Ch
    30y 4x4 4 3:04.60
    The 2010 book, though, is consistent throughout. It lists the French as medalists in the medal table, athletes index and medalists-by country listings.
    Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...
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    #17
    Kukkoahon voimakeinot alkumetreillä toivat Suomelle ensin hylkäystuomion, joka kuitenkin kumottiin vastaprotestin jälkeen. Mitalit siis tulivat kotiin, mutta erikoista kyllä, vielä 25 vuotta myöhemmin tämän juoksun pronssijoukkue on merkitty virheellisesti lähes kaikissa ulkomaisissa lähdeteoksissa

    The above appears in Matti Hannus's history of Finnish athletics, previously mentioned and translates as follows -

    Kukkoaho's forceful running meant that initially Finland was disqualified, and this was only repealed after a counter protest. Medals therefore came home to Finland, but curiously even 25 years later [the date of Hannus's book] this bronze medal team is wrongly noted as disqualified in almost all foreign reference works.

    While my translation (mainly google - but then anglicised!) is not perfect, it does give the gist of what happened. Hannus is not the type of writer who gets this sort of thing wrong - being meticulous and accurate.
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    #18
    i have footage from the final day from the BBC coverage of the 1974 europeans and this includes the 4 x 400 mens medal ceremony and the Four Finns are there, right alongside Great Britain and West Germany on the medal dais. The race was a cracker, but there were several teams who could easily have recieved a DQ for transgressions [OK then, outright fouls] in the change zone
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