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    Re: Tyson thursday?!
    #21
    I'm looking for an European online betting site that is posting odds on the race but can't find one. Is anyone aware of a reputable betting site that has posted odds already. The top 4 American 100m guys will all be there, we haven't mentioned Ryan Bailey, who got 2nd at Nationals. Bailey-Cole and Kim Collins round out the field.
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    Re: Tyson thursday?!
    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Dietmar239
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella
    Quote Originally Posted by beebee
    So says the lady who glorifies the athletes from the former Eastern Bloc.

    Talk about selective righteousness :roll:
    Not at all. I don't 'glorify' the former eastern bloc, I just enjoyed the 80's which was when I first got into athletics. It's no different to those of you who reminisce about the 50's and 60's, when PED use was rife. And besides, there is a difference between athletes being fed drugs unknowingly from when they were teenagers in a totalitarian society with little control over their everyday lives to someone who very well knows the rules. Anyway, we're on about Tyson Gay here, not the GDR.

    I personally believe that long term PED use does leave some benefit, but it's not quantifiable.

    If Gay comes back in blazing form, what does it tell us? I don't like his lenient ban, but I accept he is returning under the rules. However, in no way would I want him to return with "a screamer". Why anyone would want a convicted doper to come back in the same form they were in when they were doped is beyond me. It doesn't tell me they were a brilliant natural talent, it tells me they're still on something. Or else PEDs are useless, which we know isn't true.

    Then to add to that, some posters are wetting their pants at the thought of a Gay, Gatlin, Powell clash. I mean, really? Is this what we have come to; hyping up the return of all these frauds? Some of you are either very young, blindly patriotic or just don't care about any sense of fair play.
    So.. condemned for life then? No forgiveness? He is relegated to come back and suck or else? None of us know the entire story and we may never. However, as you mention, he is back according to the rules.
    Nobody ever suggested that Gay is condemned for life, but his punishment was deliberately reduced for no good reason to suit the USA track authorities and all fans throughout the world know it to be true. You will never know the truth in your so called open society except the ridiculous litigious charade involving one other so far will run for ever.

    Gatlin and Gay what a credit to the sport for us to enjoy on Thursday evening.
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    Re: Tyson thursday?!
    #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelp1
    Nobody ever suggested that Gay is condemned for life, but his punishment was deliberately reduced for no good reason to suit the USA track authorities and all fans throughout the world know it to be true. You will never know the truth in your so called open society except the ridiculous litigious charade involving one other so far will run for ever.

    Gatlin and Gay what a credit to the sport for us to enjoy on Thursday evening.
    That's not what was intimated in the post above. When would he be permitted to run a "screamer" without us looking at him side ways? Are we saying that with a longer and therefore more just punishment that it would be easier to accept fast races from him? Not trying to start a storm here, just asking for clarification.
    If you're ever walking down the beach and you see a girl dressed in a bikini made out of seashells, and you pick her up and hold her to your ear, you can hear her scream.
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    Re: Tyson thursday?!
    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Dietmar239
    So.. condemned for life then? No forgiveness? He is relegated to come back and suck or else? None of us know the entire story and we may never. However, as you mention, he is back according to the rules.
    No forgiveness from me, no. And I would hope those clean athletes he has pushed out of medals would also find it hard to forgive him. But I accept he is back under the rules of the sport.

    If PEDs took him to 9.7 then why on earth would anyone want him back in 9.7 form, as it would imply he is back on PEDs? Otherwise it implies the PEDs he was taking were useless, in which case I'd advise him to get his money back.
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    Re: Tyson thursday?!
    #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella
    Quote Originally Posted by Dietmar239
    So.. condemned for life then? No forgiveness? He is relegated to come back and suck or else? None of us know the entire story and we may never. However, as you mention, he is back according to the rules.
    No forgiveness from me, no. And I would hope those clean athletes he has pushed out of medals would also find it hard to forgive him. But I accept he is back under the rules of the sport.

    If PEDs took him to 9.7 then why on earth would anyone want him back in 9.7 form, as it would imply he is back on PEDs? Otherwise it implies the PEDs he was taking were useless, in which case I'd advise him to get his money back.
    You don't know what took him to 9.7. You can't point to any time or distance by any athlete and mark them with 100% certainty that they are clean. He did his time. He paid back his money. He's allowed to run. If you have an argument it is with the meet organizers who welcomed him back with open arms... why did they do that?
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    Re: Tyson thursday?!
    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Dietmar239
    That's not what was intimated in the post above. When would he be permitted to run a "screamer" without us looking at him side ways? Are we saying that with a longer and therefore more just punishment that it would be easier to accept fast races from him? Not trying to start a storm here, just asking for clarification.
    The main point of my posts are bewilderment and bemusement, with a lot of frustration, as to why anyone would want to see a proven cheat back in amazing form first race back from their ban. Yes I want longer bans. I dont want to see cheats return in amazing form as it suggests they may still be dirty. But nowhere have I said a longer ban means I am more likely to accept if he came back in decent form, where on earth did you get that from?

    I personally would rather returning cheats never perform at their pre ban level ever again. Of course, for some cheats they may have taken drugs before their natural peak, and who knows, perhaps post ban, at their natural peak,they could match their PED peak. But we'll never know that, and as these are people who have been proven to cheat, I feel I have every right to take their performances with a pinch of salt and yes, for me, they are forever tainted. That is just my opinion.

    My personal feelings aside, Gay has had a relatively small amount of time 'off', so, whereas Gatlin took a while to reach form after his 4 year ban, Gay should get back into his form (be that natural or otherwise) much quicker. However, we are all aware of Gay's injury woes, and he is nearly 32, so this will be an uphill struggle for him. I am sure though, if he wants to, he will do what is necessary to get back into 9.8-9.9 form at least. If he wants to.
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    Re: Tyson thursday?!
    #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushop
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella
    I personally believe that long term PED use does leave some benefit, but it's not quantifiable.
    Agreed.
    Well, another way of saying this is that: 'I "know", but there is no evidence', which is a very strained interpretation of the word "know".
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    Re: Tyson thursday?!
    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by booond
    You don't know what took him to 9.7. You can't point to any time or distance by any athlete and mark them with 100% certainty that they are clean. He did his time. He paid back his money. He's allowed to run. If you have an argument it is with the meet organizers who welcomed him back with open arms... why did they do that?
    Erm, yes we do. We know that PEDs took him to 9.75 in 2013 and a few 9.8's in 2012.

    We all have our views on who else is or isn't clean. The fact is, Gay wasn't. Deal with it and accept that he cheated.

    Yes, he did his time, albeit it very short, and is allowed to run. So what? It doesn't mean that because he is allowed back under the rules we have to put our rose tinted spectacles on; we can choose to have the salt pot ready for a little pinch instead.
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    Re: Tyson thursday?!
    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by 26mi235
    Well, another way of saying this is that: 'I "know", but there is no evidence', which is a very strained interpretation of the word "know".
    We know PEDs improve performance. As far as I'm aware we don't know what the long term affects are to performance once an athlete has stopped taking them, unless perhaps you or others have a link to such studies? Cheers.
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    Re: Tyson thursday?!
    #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriella
    Quote Originally Posted by booond
    You don't know what took him to 9.7. You can't point to any time or distance by any athlete and mark them with 100% certainty that they are clean. He did his time. He paid back his money. He's allowed to run. If you have an argument it is with the meet organizers who welcomed him back with open arms... why did they do that?
    Erm, yes we do. We know that PEDs took him to 9.75 in 2013 and a few 9.8's in 2012.

    We all have our views on who else is or isn't clean. The fact is, Gay wasn't. Deal with it and accept that he cheated.

    Yes, he did his time, albeit it very short, and is allowed to run. So what? It doesn't mean that because he is allowed back under the rules we have to put our rose tinted spectacles on; we can choose to have the salt pot ready for a little pinch instead.
    Uh, you don't. You know he had PEDS in his system when tested. That is all you know.

    As to whether he cheated or not... he cheated. Nothing for me to get over.

    The system is flawed and won't catch all the cheaters. Gay races against "clean" cheats all the time. Every competition at Lausanne will have cheats... you don't know who they are. Neither do I; I won't grind my teeth at any competitor.
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