Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    Disagree with that. I think the absolute greatest coaches would be great in any era. Wooden would win today. Lombardi would win today. Krzyzewski and Belichick could win 50 years from now if he were transported to that era.
    agree and I think Bear Bryant would be great today even though he coached with a stone aged attitude right from the beginning and seemingly never adapted at all, same attitude in the early mid 50s as he had in the 70s. I think with coaching there are many paths and personalities and approaches to success. Bryant simply destroyed everyone and reduced personalities to clay where they could be reshaped. That model was also the Hayes model. It was based on a military model of team building where each "individual" will must die in order for the greater good of the whole to be born and be the best it can be. They took great pride in flushing great talent off the team because the process created a team will that was unconquerable. The idea that any team of 60 players could be better by having any one individual treated in an accommodating way was anathema and was certain doom for the team.

    The Bear won countless national titles with that approach and Hayes was incredibly successful with it too.

    But you just cant lose your mind and run onto the field during a major bowl game and punch an opposing linebacker in the chest !!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEVJyf0ft3I

    dont laugh !!!
    Last edited by user4; 12-03-2019 at 11:25 PM.
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    Chief of sports medicine at Duke for many years was a guy named Frank Bassett. Frank played football for Bear Bryant at Kentucky (before Texas A&M, before Alabama). I asked him once what Bear Bryant was like. His answer, "Meanest man I ever met." Would not say another word about him.
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    There are tough, tough coaches and there are limits. I loved Lombardi and he was thought to be plenty tough. But my favorite Lombardi story is in Jerry Kramer's book Instant Replay. Kramer related how in two-a-days in pre-season Lombardi had spent the whole day yelling at him, and telling him how bad his play was. In the locker late in the day he was dejected, sitting there soaked in sweat, long after many of the other players had left. Lombardi then came into the locker room, and saw him, walked over to him, put his hand on his shoulder, and said, "Son, someday you're going to be the greatest guard in the NFL." Kramer said if Lombardi had asked at that moment to go back on the field and do the practice all over again, he would have done it for him.

    Some coaches just have that knack, to know how to motivate people and get them to play for them. Krzyzewski obviously has it. When I was Duke team doctor, the football coach was Steve Spurrier and we were pretty good. Then he went to Florida and they promoted the offensive coordinator, Barry Wilson, to head coach. Barry was a great guy, and been a good offensive coordinator (tho Spurrier did a lot of it). But he was bust as a head coach. Whatever it is, and I don't know exactly what that is, he just didn't have that something that distinguishes great coaches from also-rans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    I'm not sure about that. Coaches need an open mind to transition from one era to the other and some coaches are unable to adapt with changing times. I agree with you about Lombardi and Wooden, and certainly someone as forward thinking as Rockne could have thrived today, but some other great coaches (eg. Rupp, Hayes, Knight) were hostages to their eras IMO.
    I think the best coaches of an era were the best then because their style of play (which came naturally to them, even considering the adjustments they made along the way - I'm looking at you, Bud Wilkinson, one of my all-time faves), but . . . and this will be super unpopular with the older gents here, I think as eras changed, their 'feel' for the game would have become obsolete. And yes, that is even true of many of the great old-time players. One glaring exception would be guys like Jimmy Brown, who would still be the dominant rusher of today. My sprint GOAT before Bolt, Bullet Bob, growing up today would have been as good as Bolt . . . (sez I!), even as I acknowledge Bolt's GOATness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
    My sprint GOAT before Bolt, Bullet Bob, growing up today would have been as good as Bolt . . . (sez I!), even as I acknowledge Bolt's GOATness.
    Saw a thing yesterday on youtube - almost posted it here. It was a ranking of the 10 fastest NFL players ever. They ranked Bob Hayes #5. Henry Carr was not listed. Darrell Green was #1. Bo Jackson was #2. Deion Sanders #3.

    I agree with Atticus about Hayes' ranking as a sprinter. Shows what the NFL guys know about speed. Bo Jackson not even remotely in Hayes' league as a sprinter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    Saw a thing yesterday on youtube - almost posted it here. It was a ranking of the 10 fastest NFL players ever. They ranked Bob Hayes #5. Henry Carr was not listed. Darrell Green was #1. Bo Jackson was #2. Deion Sanders #3.
    They were thinking 'quickness', which is a football thing. For actual speed, there was no match.
    I was watching highlights of C McCaffrey the other day. He's tearing up the NFL with his quicks, but he wasn't even in the top 5 in the 40 at the Combine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    I think you're right, jazzy, but I guess I meant the absolute greatest coaches - Lombardi, Wooden, Krzyzewski, Dean Smith - and I would include Anson Dorrance in that pantheon. However, you're right that guys like Rupp, Hayes, and Knight likely would not have adjusted well. But I don't put them on the same level as that first group
    If you think about it, the game had passed Rupp and Knight by. Rupp failed to make it to the Final Four his last 14 years at Kentucky and Knight never made it pass the Sweet 16 the last 14 years of his coaching career (7 at Indiana and 7 at Texas Tech), not making the tournament in 3 of those years and going out in the first round on 6 occasions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bambam1729 View Post
    Saw a thing yesterday on youtube - almost posted it here. It was a ranking of the 10 fastest NFL players ever. They ranked Bob Hayes #5. Henry Carr was not listed. Darrell Green was #1. Bo Jackson was #2. Deion Sanders #3.

    I agree with Atticus about Hayes' ranking as a sprinter. Shows what the NFL guys know about speed. Bo Jackson not even remotely in Hayes' league as a sprinter.
    Yep, NFL guys use the phrase "world class sprinter" to describe 10.5 guys. Here are the FAT PR's of their top three guys:

    • Green - 10.08
      Jackson - 10.44
      Sanders - 10.26
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    Jackson - 10.44
    Bo knows that if Bo had trained to just be a sprinter, he (and Neon) woulda been contendas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
    Bo knows that if Bo had trained to just be a sprinter, he (and Neon) woulda been contendas.
    All these times, as well as Trindon Holliday's 10.00, Jacoby Ford's 10.01 and Herchel Walker's 10.23. were all run by athletes whose primary focus was college football, meaning none of them had the benefit of fall training and probably had to do some spring football.
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