Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Re: chinese womens 1500 records
    #31
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    It's obvious that NO ONE knows why these marks are so anomalous, but they are. Eliminating PEDs is as foolish as elimination of 'short-track' or falsified times as explanations. Because no one can now measure the tracks or time the videos, we're stuck with just a big :?: hovering over the marks. Very sad, but as gh says, it's T&FN's prerogative to accept or deny them. I agree with this and the FloJo stance.
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    Re: chinese womens 1500 records
    #32
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    I've been seeking for the complete results of Shanghai 1997. I even created a Wikipedia page for it, and the National Games in 1997 are even more stunning than the 1993 edition.
    Here are the the results of the 1500m, compiled by myself

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_ ... nal_Games__Women%27s_1500m

    Jiang Bo was 20, broke into the limelight at 18 by winning the 5000m at the Chinese City Games the same year, ahead Wang Junxia.
    Lang Yinglai was 16 when she joined Ma Junren's training group in 1995. She only competed in 1997 at the Chinese junior championships, clocking a 4:16ish. Then came the NG, with her 3:51 on 1500. She was 18 then.
    Zhang Ling was 16 and her 3:54.52 still stands as the World youth best today.


    And the performances were outstanding in every event at this competition.
    -20 year-old Li Xuemei won the 100m and the 200m in 10.79 and 22.01, with her teammate Liu Xiaomei finishing twice second in 10.89 and 22.36 ! They later won the gold medal on the 4 x 100m, representing the Sichuan province. They clocked 42.23, and it was even not the national team.

    -17 year-old Li Jing crossed the line in 50.01 on 400m. She had competed at the Goteborg WC in 1995, at 15. She never had a distinguished career after Shanghai 1997.

    -On 5000m, Jiang Bo, Dong Yangmei and Liu Shixiang smashed Ribeiro's record. Bo's record was however beaten by Abeylegesse in 2004

    -On 10000m, 6 women under 31:00. Wang actually did not compete at those Games, as she retired at the end of 1996.

    Other dubious marks in the jumps and throws were set, and Shen Shengfei, a 16 year-old Zhejiang native, finished second of the heptathlon (senior, you have understood) with a 6185 points score.

    As if those Chinese athletes of the 90's only trained for these National Games... That's simply weird.
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    Re: chinese womens 1500 records
    #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cranberry1
    Lang Yinglai was 16 when she joined Ma Junren's training group in 1995.
    I have seen some really unbelievable things accomplished by athletes who fell under the spell of a Svengalian coach. The human mind is capable of creating some pretty amazing physical manifestations when it BELIEVES (a corollary of the placebo effect). There's no doubt that Ma's Army was under his spell. Is it POSSIBLE they really did all these things clean? Maybe . . . but Occam's Razor compels us to look at simpler explanations - PEDs, short track, falsified times, etc. I am naturally a skeptical sort, so I choose to believe the latter explanations.
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    Re: chinese womens 1500 records
    #34
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    One snippet of the 1500m available on yt shows the 300m mark being passed in right around 42 secs if we believe the time on the screen.
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    Re: chinese womens 1500 records
    #35
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    Worth spending the 15 minutes to read: http://www.rdasia.com/china_cleans_up_its_game
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    Re: chinese womens 1500 records
    #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlow
    It's obvious that NO ONE knows why these marks are so anomalous, but they are.
    Someone certainly knows.
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    Re: chinese womens 1500 records
    #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikli
    Worth spending the 15 minutes to read: http://www.rdasia.com/china_cleans_up_its_game
    Indeed, which is why I am now further convinced in the first of my last three suppositions above. It's the most obvious, logical, rational explanation, given the circumstances and verifiability of other factors.
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    Re: chinese womens 1500 records
    #38
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    I think I've found something interesting. There were no pictures from the Shanghai National Games, and I've just randomly found some from the 5.000 metres final, including Dong Yanmei, the mysterious Liu Shixiang and the former world record holder Bo Jiang.

    Right here:
    http://www.reocities.com/Colosseum/7273/ma-97.html
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    Re: chinese womens 1500 records
    #39
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    can you clarify one thing though, are you saying some of these athletes never competed internationally? i mean, both wang junxia and qu yunxia did, so it's not like they were unicorns or other fabled creatures... i believe the sprinter li xuemei did too.
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    Re: chinese womens 1500 records
    #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlow
    Quote Originally Posted by gh
    there's not necessarily anything wrong w/ the athletes, but there's most certainly something wrong with the marks. There's a massive difference between the two.
    ??!! I've never heard this line of reasoning before. Are you implying that the marks were falsified? There was no video to re-time the races? Or the track really was short?
    The Chinese women's middle and long distance performances during the 1993 Stuttgart worlds were indication enough of things to come. Those performances, however, were (sur)real.
    It took still 4 more years to hallucinate the world.
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