Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Re: Yet another Darwin Award candidate
    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Pego
    Quote Originally Posted by Blues
    I've gotten a lot closer to potentially dangerous animals and venomous snakes in the wild
    Since you are still here, that indicates that you never crossed the boundaries of "common sense" whatever that may be in different situations. The late Mr Wieme did and as a result, he is no longer with us.
    Well, we may never know what Mr. Wieme knew or assumed regarding the risks involved. I would wager good money though that Mr. Wieme didn't know he was stepping out onto the top of a smokestack, and the news reports also state that he thought he was stepping onto a ledge on the observation deck... Again, if there was no reasonable reason he should have assumed it was a smokestack, and the hotel didn't have the area secured, then I won't necessarily call him dumb, especially knowing the specific set of value orientations a dedicated photographer might have. What he climbed didn't appear to look like a smokestack from his vantage point, wasn't secured, and only involved climbing about 10 to 15 steps from the observation deck up an attached ladder, as can be seen in the photo I posted previously.

    If I crouch down to get a close up shot of a wild rattlesnake from about 6 feet away, I'm using the established facts that rattlesnakes can't strike more than a length of 1/2 to 2/3 of their bodies, and that a rattlesnake won't chase you.. Obviously if something makes me fall forward I'm screwed, or if something suddenly forces the rattlesnake to move closer to me I might be screwed, but I evaluate the possibilities, and evaluate my chance of dealing with any unexpected situations, and then decide whether or not to take the risk. On the rare chance that a tree should fall unexpectedly, or a tornado should suddenly crop up out of thin air, or a pile of space junk falls on me from outer space, and I end up getting knocked forward and bitten, or if I should somehow encounter the one in a million "Usain Bolt of rattlesnakes" and he's able to bite me from 6 feet away when no other rattlesnakes can, some people would call me dumb, while others would call me unlucky. It just seems to me that there might be different ways to look at the same situation, especially if we haven't walked in the involved person's shoes or don't know all the facts involved.
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    Re: Yet another Darwin Award candidate
    #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues
    Well, we may never know what Mr. Wieme knew or assumed regarding the risks involved. I would wager good money though that Mr. Wieme didn't know he was stepping out onto the top of a smokestack, and the news reports also state that he thought he was stepping onto a ledge on the observation deck...
    This was a fairly big story in Chicago last week, and almost everyone I to talked their attitude was, while they felt sorry for the poor dude, the guy was dumb and stupid.

    So the guy climbs up to the top and either sees a big hole, or in the dark has no idea what is there and continues? That is dumb. And it is important to call it that because then someone else may avoid such a horrible fate.

    It would be one thing if this guy was a professional photographer trying to get an important shot, say in a war zone or some important event. Or even a mountaineer, like Galen Rowell trying to take a shot. In that case you might take some risks, but even then you would, at least the people I know, try to minimize them. And certainly not after drinking. But this guy, after a few drinks in a fancy restaurant was trying to get some shot, that he would post on facebook, and get a few comments, etc. Pretty silly.

    As a former teacher, and uncle, this is what you try to get through to younger folks. Don't go into places you have no business, even if there are no signs. And don't do what that idiot did.

    End of lesson. QED.
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    Re: Yet another Darwin Award candidate
    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary

    ....the guy was dumb and stupid.

    .....So the guy climbs up to the top and either sees a big hole, or in the dark has no idea what is there and continues? That is dumb. And it is important to call it that because then someone else may avoid such a horrible fate......

    ....But this guy, after a few drinks in a fancy restaurant was trying to get some shot, that he would post on facebook, and get a few comments, etc. Pretty silly.

    As a former teacher, and uncle, this is what you try to get through to younger folks. Don't go into places you have no business, even if there are no signs. And don't do what that idiot did.

    End of lesson. QED.
    QED??? I'm giving you a crappy rating on RateMyTeachers.com... :wink:

    It's been published that they had dinner and drinks at a restaurant earlier, but without knowing his blood alcohol level, isn't it at least possible that he could have had a drink or two over the course of the dinner and not necessarily had his judgement impaired after the meal? If he was impaired, then he wasn't too wise, but do we really know if alcohol had anything to do with his actions?

    Without knowing what he was thinking on that observation deck, and what he saw or didn't see up there, and without knowing exactly how he lost his footing and fell, I prefer to reserve judgement. Hopefully the hotel will prevent something like this from ever happening again, regardless of the individual IQ's of the hotel guests.

    Regarding "not going into places you have no business, even if there are no signs", I've stumbled across some of the most serene and uniquely beautiful places I've ever seen by taking a risk and exploring when I wasn't sure where I'd end up. It's not always crystal clear whether or not you have no business in a place. Some people feel you have no business in a place only if there's a sign that says you don't, and others feel you have no business in a place if there isn't a sign that says you do.. Neither is always right and sometimes it's a judgement call. And some people's hearts, and thus actions, are influenced more by types of beauty that may have more of an impact on them than on others.

    BUT, to surrender to you and Pego, I'll accept being thought of as an "idiot" (or as being thought of as an "idiot" in one more way than people already think) since I might have taken the risk and also climbed the 20 ft ladder to take a look, even if I probably wouldn't have stepped off onto the top.. The writer of the following short piece might accept being thought of as being an "idiot" too.. I think we all have different priorities and values that help determine whether we feel a risk is worthwhile to take or not, as well as how great we feel the risk is. :

    http://www.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/ar ... olas-wieme
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    Re: Yet another Darwin Award candidate
    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Blues
    If I didn't realize that it was a smokestack and assumed it was another observation tower, I might have thought about climbing the short distance too if there were no locks and no signs warning me that it was a smokestack

    Photo source: http://www.chicagocarless.com/2008/05/1 ... ago-hotel/
    Interestingly, the photo caption mentions that is was built as a zeppelin dock, although it was never used. Maybe that why it doesn't look like a regular smokestack?
    Knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance
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    Re: Yet another Darwin Award candidate
    #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues
    to surrender to you and Pego, I'll accept being thought of as an "idiot"
    To set the record straight, I said repeatedly that you are not. Mr Wieme on the other hand... :wink:
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley
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    Re: Yet another Darwin Award candidate
    #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pego
    Quote Originally Posted by Blues
    to surrender to you and Pego, I'll accept being thought of as an "idiot"
    To set the record straight, I said repeatedly that you are not. Mr Wieme on the other hand... :wink:
    Ditto with that. After all you are still here....
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    Re: Yet another Darwin Award candidate
    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary
    Quote Originally Posted by Pego
    Quote Originally Posted by Blues
    to surrender to you and Pego, I'll accept being thought of as an "idiot"
    To set the record straight, I said repeatedly that you are not. Mr Wieme on the other hand... :wink:
    Ditto with that. After all you are still here....
    So far... But if I should die from falling down a smokestack after getting the photo (or seeing a view) of a lifetime, or from a rattlesnake bite or mountain lion attack in the wild, or because of a starter who accidentally used a real loaded gun at a meet, at least I'll die smiling, knowing that I died doing something I love. (wink)

    Obviously there are even better examples I could use, but gh would probably delete the thread or ban me if I mentioned them, considering that threads like the female pole vaulter thread are routinely deleted...
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    Re: Yet another Darwin Award candidate
    #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues
    or because of a starter who accidentally used a real loaded gun at a meet, at least I'll die smiling, knowing that I died doing something I love. (wink)
    How about a starter pistol like this:

    http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/asset/ ... _start.jpg
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    Re: Yet another Darwin Award candidate
    #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues
    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary
    Quote Originally Posted by Pego
    Quote Originally Posted by Blues
    to surrender to you and Pego, I'll accept being thought of as an "idiot"
    To set the record straight, I said repeatedly that you are not. Mr Wieme on the other hand... :wink:
    Ditto with that. After all you are still here....
    So far... But if I should die from falling down a smokestack after getting the photo (or seeing a view) of a lifetime, or from a rattlesnake bite or mountain lion attack in the wild, or because of a starter who accidentally used a real loaded gun at a meet, at least I'll die smiling, knowing that I died doing something I love. (wink)

    Obviously there are even better examples I could use, but gh would probably delete the thread or ban me if I mentioned them, considering that threads like the female pole vaulter thread are routinely deleted...
    I think you guys will approve of my death wish - at 100 to be shot by a jealous husband.
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley
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    Re: Yet another Darwin Award candidate
    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Pego
    Quote Originally Posted by Blues
    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary
    Quote Originally Posted by Pego

    To set the record straight, I said repeatedly that you are not. Mr Wieme on the other hand...
    Ditto with that. After all you are still here....
    So far... But if I should die from falling down a smokestack after getting the photo (or seeing a view) of a lifetime, or from a rattlesnake bite or mountain lion attack in the wild, or because of a starter who accidentally used a real loaded gun at a meet, at least I'll die smiling, knowing that I died doing something I love. (wink)

    Obviously there are even better examples I could use, but gh would probably delete the thread or ban me if I mentioned them, considering that threads like the female pole vaulter thread are routinely deleted...
    I think you guys will approve of my death wish - at 100 to be shot by a jealous husband.
    I KNEW it was only a matter of time until Pego came around to my way of thinking! Now I have to work on Conor Dary.. (wink)
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