Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Quote Originally Posted by odelltrclan
    Quote Originally Posted by mcgato
    Quote Originally Posted by gh
    The key to Dr. Pego's analysis is that the same people who decry the science behind immunization are very selective in their thinking and for the most part probably gobble pain-killers and antibiotics (part of the same golden age of medical therapy) without a thought.
    I wish people would quit assuming that everyone who chose not to get a flu vaccine (me) also believe that all vaccines are bad. Vaccinations given in early childhood against a whole array of diseases are very good, as the child then should never get the disease in question, most of which can be very serious diseases. We don't see tons of people with polio in iron lungs for a reason. I doubt a flu vaccine is even 90% effective in preventing the flu for that season. And the flu is usually not a very serious disease for most healthy people.

    Not getting a vaccine to have over a 99.999% chance of preventing a life in an iron lung is stupid.

    Not getting a vaccine to have less than a 90% chance of preventing a few days of feeling crappy and throwing up a few times is a chance I'm willing to take. I figure with or without the flu vaccine that I'm going to get the flu every three to five years anyway.
    Very well said ALSO

    If I thought that getting the vaccine would have made a significant difference in my life, I would not hesitate. There had been plenty of statistics published about this flu long before the vaccines were available and it made me think twice about getting a flu vaccine, but that is it. This was not the 1918 flu. And it was more than the media that was the difference.

    By the way, I do take antibiotics. . . . if I am sick enough to need to go to the doctor and they prescribe it. Fortunately that has not happened more than a couple of times in the last 30 years.
    I think you guys are underestimating the potential of the flu to cause another major epidemic. It's airborne, mutates rapidly to avoid immune surveillance, and, depending on the strain, can have a severe effect on otherwise yung healthy people.

    I'm not certain but I think the recent H1N1 was a very similar flu virus to that which caused the 1918 epidemic. If a vaccine and antivirals/other precautions are only even 50% effective, it may be enough to stop the spread and limit deaths.

    Then again, there did seem to be a lot of sensationalistic media coverage.
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    Re: as our descent back into the Middle Ages continues
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    Whooping cough on record pace in California

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... .DTL&tsp=1

    let's hope there's a decent response rate among those needing vaccinations.
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    Re: as our descent back into the Middle Ages continues
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    Quote Originally Posted by gh
    Whooping cough on record pace in California

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... .DTL&tsp=1

    let's hope there's a decent response rate among those needing vaccinations.
    I am pretty sure, I am the only poster here that actually saw cases of whooping cough. Those blue faces of children unable to stop hacking you don't forget. Parents that refuse the immunization should be made to watch these films for a while.
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley
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    Re: as our descent back into the Middle Ages continues
    Quote Originally Posted by Pego
    Quote Originally Posted by gh
    Whooping cough on record pace in California

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... .DTL&tsp=1

    let's hope there's a decent response rate among those needing vaccinations.
    I am pretty sure, I am the only poster here that actually saw cases of whooping cough. Those blue faces of children unable to stop hacking you don't forget. Parents that refuse the immunization should be made to watch these films for a while.
    Fully agree - having seen some cases of kids with whooping cough.
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    Re: as our descent back into the Middle Ages continues
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    43% of US H1N1 vaccine supply to be destroyed after expiring unused, to the tune of over $300 million.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38033294/ns/health/
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    Quote Originally Posted by guru
    Quote Originally Posted by gh
    The more high-risk people who get shot up, the fewer potential Typhoid Marys there are out there to spread it to the rest of the populace.

    (again, this is speaking vaccination in general, not focusing on Swine Flu)

    Nobody is saying "high risk" people shouldn't get the vaccine, including me in this very thread.

    But in general, you have to think twice about getting something put into your body that has risk such that federal legislation specifically protects the manufacturers/providers from legal liability.

    That protection may soon be coming to an end.

    http://www.onthedocket.org/cases/2009/b ... tz-v-wyeth

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... =D9IQCQ000
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    Re: as our descent back into the Middle Ages continues
    90% of the improvement in health over the last 100 years resulted from improvement in hygiene not from any advancement in medical science.

    The availability of clean, safe drinking water is a key. The safe disposal of waste is another.

    The improvement in the health of doctor's patients went up significantly when the doctors began to wash their hands before each examination.

    A significant percentage of patients in hospitals die not from the ailment they were admitted for, but from ailments they contracted while staying in the hospital.

    Is there any truth to the rumor that the company that produces most of the swine flu vaccines is owned by one of the Bush crew?
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    Re: as our descent back into the Middle Ages continues
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornstarchwilson
    90% of the improvement in health over the last 100 years resulted from improvement in hygiene not from any advancement in medical science.
    While 'cleanliness' has made a HUGE difference in public health, it accounts for much less of the improvement than the introduction of sophisticated medicines and improved treatments/surgeries. The radical improvements made in the treatment of heart diseases and cancers is an example.
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    Re: as our descent back into the Middle Ages continues
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    Quote Originally Posted by cornstarchwilson
    90% of the improvement in health over the last 100 years resulted from improvement in hygiene not from any advancement in medical science.
    Not remotely close to 90%


    Quote Originally Posted by cornstarchwilson
    A significant percentage of patients in hospitals die not from the ailment they were admitted for, but from ailments they contracted while staying in the hospital.
    What do you consider "significant percentage?"

    It never fails to amaze me how virtually every debate dealing with issues such as immunization or variable "alternative healing options" end up with somebody eager to blast traditional medicine or its providers.
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley
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    Re: as our descent back into the Middle Ages continues
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    And with wild claims made without data to back them up (see above quote, "A significant percentage of patients in hospitals die not from the ailment they were admitted for, but from ailments they contracted while staying in the hospital.")
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