Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Quote Originally Posted by 18.99s View Post
    They'd rather miss 3 weeks of work instead of getting the vaccine?
    Vaccines don't work immediately. If you have already been exposed to measles, it is too late to get the vaccine if the state health department wants to quarantine you.

    Though oddly enough, science does not apply to school exclusion situations, where they generally will allow kids back in school after they get the vaccine, even if they know they were exposed to a contagious student.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pego View Post
    Mumps can oblige them at times.

    Mumps does not sterilize children. Mumps rarely _sterilizes_ anyone. The swollen testicles only happen after puberty and may diminish fertility, but causing complete infertility is rare.
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    Quote Originally Posted by donley2 View Post
    Hmmm. Being over 50 I don't have the slightest clue where my childhood vaccination records are (and both my parents are dead) and I seriously doubt I am alone. Odds are good I had whatever was recommended when I was growing up, but I doubt I could prove it.
    The vast majority of adults are in this situation. Most states now have centralized databases that track children's vaccines, but for the majority of us, we don't have records.

    My mom keep meticulous records and I am sure she has mine somewhere, but I don't have a copy of my vaccine records with me.
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    I concede that if I had to find my six-decade-old vaccination records it might be tough, if not impossible. Kaiser in Oakland is still around (new building) but the records? Who knows. My comment was more geared towards today's students where scrutiny of such things is at a much higher level. In today's environment here in the US I assume every parent has access to the vaccination records of their kids. I could be wrong, it's happened before . . .
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    Every state either requires proof of vaccination or some sort of exemption for a child to attend school.

    My comments are about adults. In a measles outbreak, some health departments will quarantine adults who were exposed to a contagious individual if they cannot provide proof of immunization or immunity. I think they generally assume adults over a certain age are immune.

    In my state, their ability to quarantine is fairly limited, I think just 10 days, and the person being quarantined as the right to petition the superior court. I don't think we normally issue quarantines unless it is reasonable to believe someone actually has measles, and there are reasons to believe they won't self-quarantine.

    But in other states, your local health department may have broader powers to quarantine.

    I have no idea what is being accepted for proof of immunity in adults. If your parents are still alive and willing to state on the record they vaccinated you on schedule, perhaps that works in some cases.

    This man was exposed to measles and could not prove immunity. He was quarantined. He NEVER got measles. We know this because there were zero confirmed cases in his state last year.

    He violated the quarantine and is now being charged with a crime, like 9 months later when measles got big in the news: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...go-gym-n979436

    I do not support anyone violating a quarantine, but I am posting this to show that people without a disease being quarantined because they cannot show immunity is a real thing that is happening.
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    Measles outbreak ultimate sign of world that has come untethered from facts gains ground in US....

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/24/h...core-ios-share
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Dary View Post

    Measles outbreak, provides ultimate sign that if you are in a dense urban anti-vax community that also engages in a great deal of international travel you are really pressing your luck !
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    On a happier note, the measles outbreak in WA has been declared over. Final count was 71 cases (that only includes cases in Clark County, there was also one case in King County)

    https://www.clark.wa.gov/public-heal...-investigation

    61 cases in unvaccinated, only 1 MMR three cases, unverified seven cases.

    Unverified usually means fully vaccinated but there is not concrete evidence of when. Most of the victims in Clark County were part of an immigrant community, and I suspect most of the adults were vaccinated outside the US.

    It's a shame they don't break these down by age. The measles vaccine has VERY good long term durability, but there is some evidence that it will eventually (decades later) start to wane for some people. If the four 30-39yos with measles were vaccinated and their vaccine wore off, that would be something to keep an eye on.

    Our current generation of seniors mostly had wild measles as a child, and subsequent exposures that boosted their immune system.

    Obviously the hope is true global eradication, but political unrest and violence always make that a challenge.

    In another 30-50 years, when the population of seniors is relying on immunity from their childhood, how will they respond to outbreaks? If the vaccine starts to wane for some adults, things could get ugly.


    In the New York outbreak, the data on their website indicates:
    Age Range Confirmed Cases
    Under 1 year 68
    1 4 years 202
    5 18 years 85
    Over 18 years 68
    Total 423

    That is more adults than I would have expected, it would be very interesting to see how many of them were vaccinated and a more detailed age breakdown. I am assuming the vast majority of those under 18 who got measles were not vaccinated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by polevaultpower View Post
    Vaccines don't work immediately. If you have already been exposed to measles, it is too late to get the vaccine if the state health department wants to quarantine you.

    Though oddly enough, science does not apply to school exclusion situations, where they generally will allow kids back in school after they get the vaccine, even if they know they were exposed to a contagious student.
    Actually, for measles, vaccination within 72 hours of exposure may provide protection. And it can be difficult to know exactly who was exposed in some settings. Vaccination will protect you from further exposures as this outbreak continues if you didn't get disease in the earlier rounds. And those kids they do let back in school after vaccination are supposed to be followed and excluded immediately if they develop symptoms (and not wait for rash). This policy has not caused problems to date in the post elimination era in the US. The problem is when contact tracing, isolation, vaccination, and monitoring for symptoms is not done efficiently and the longer an outbreak goes on the more difficult it is to do this. The key to outbreak control for measles is early intervention and that seems to have been lacking back in September/October.
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    Quote Originally Posted by polevaultpower View Post
    On a happier note, the measles outbreak in WA has been declared over. Final count was 71 cases (that only includes cases in Clark County, there was also one case in King County)

    https://www.clark.wa.gov/public-heal...-investigation

    61 cases in unvaccinated, only 1 MMR three cases, unverified seven cases.

    Unverified usually means fully vaccinated but there is not concrete evidence of when. Most of the victims in Clark County were part of an immigrant community, and I suspect most of the adults were vaccinated outside the US.

    It's a shame they don't break these down by age. The measles vaccine has VERY good long term durability, but there is some evidence that it will eventually (decades later) start to wane for some people. If the four 30-39yos with measles were vaccinated and their vaccine wore off, that would be something to keep an eye on.

    Our current generation of seniors mostly had wild measles as a child, and subsequent exposures that boosted their immune system.

    Obviously the hope is true global eradication, but political unrest and violence always make that a challenge.

    In another 30-50 years, when the population of seniors is relying on immunity from their childhood, how will they respond to outbreaks? If the vaccine starts to wane for some adults, things could get ugly.


    In the New York outbreak, the data on their website indicates:
    Age Range Confirmed Cases
    Under 1 year 68
    1 – 4 years 202
    5 – 18 years 85
    Over 18 years 68
    Total 423

    That is more adults than I would have expected, it would be very interesting to see how many of them were vaccinated and a more detailed age breakdown. I am assuming the vast majority of those under 18 who got measles were not vaccinated.
    Waning immunity is not a major issue for measles vaccine. And remember when you are looking at case counts by age, the denominator for ages 18 and older is much higher than the younger age groups. It's the rate that matters when looking at vaccine effectiveness, and the rates in adult age groups is very low and has stayed low over time and goes down with age if you break that age group down further. Unvaccinated cohorts now in their 20's accounts for more adult cases than vaccinated cases in their 40's or 50's, for example.
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