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    https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/19/healt...urg/index.html anti-vaxxers strike again with mis-information!
    Last edited by thedoorknobbroke; 04-19-2019 at 04:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedoorknobbroke View Post
    https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/19/healt...urg/index.html anti-vaxxers strike again with mis-information!
    The largest outbreaks in recent years have mostly occurred within tight knit ethnic and/or religious communities. Upper middle class white women who don't vaccinate tend to connect online and are not as geographically clustered.

    Public health authorities should try and identify these groups in their area and work with local leaders to develop strategies to address concerns within those communities. This generally has to come from someone within the community.

    We can crunch numbers about unvaccinated children, but where they are geographically clustered matters.

    This article dives into it nicely.

    https://www.vox.com/2019/3/19/182636...9-clark-county
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedoorknobbroke View Post
    this is not an anti-vaxxer story but a reminder of how important vaccines are... pregnant women need to get pertussis vaccine at least a few weeks before giving birth... https://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/hea...ry?id=40956756
    I chose not to. It wasn't even a thing with my first, but it was with my second.

    I chose not to because it was a brand new recommendation, with limited research behind the safety and efficacy of doing so.

    I also chose so because there have been concerns about whether giving the vaccine during pregnancy will make it harder for kids to develop an immune response to the vaccine as they get older.

    I vaccinated my kids on schedule for pertussis, so they got their first shot at two months. So I basically gambled on those first two months of life, which is when pertussis is the most dangerous, versus the long term unknowns that come with vaccinating during pregnancy.

    But that doesn't mean I try to convince others not to do so. I think people have to research what is known and make the best decisions they can. Pertussis can easily be deadly in those first two month of life, I definitely recognize the desire for increased protection during this time.

    Cocooning has failed to protect newborns. Hopefully this strategy will work better. I didn't want to be a guinea pig. That was 6 years ago, if I had to make that decision today, I would have more data to look at.
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    I live about an hour from Toronto in the most heavily populated part of Canada. Despite an education system that many believe is far from par, Canada apparently scores top 10 worldwide for our education system, if I can believe something like a BBC report of 2 years ago that claimed "Canada has climbed into the top tier of international rankings."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40708421

    And YET, my niece had a baby girl 17 months ago, and the baby was hospitalized mutliple times this year with pneumonia. My niece's doctor never informed her there is a vaccine for pneumonia. I got it 3 years ago. My mother came down with pneumonia last year in Mexico. She was unaware of it. So we're this smart, modern country with a ton of bright, ignorant, people who don't know how to inform the population of life saving technology. And we routinely elect.....never mind, there'll be a vaccine for that someday, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trackCanuck View Post
    I live about an hour from Toronto in the most heavily populated part of Canada. Despite an education system that many believe is far from par, Canada apparently scores top 10 worldwide for our education system, if I can believe something like a BBC report of 2 years ago that claimed "Canada has climbed into the top tier of international rankings."

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-40708421

    And YET, my niece had a baby girl 17 months ago, and the baby was hospitalized mutliple times this year with pneumonia. My niece's doctor never informed her there is a vaccine for pneumonia. I got it 3 years ago. My mother came down with pneumonia last year in Mexico. She was unaware of it. So we're this smart, modern country with a ton of bright, ignorant, people who don't know how to inform the population of life saving technology. And we routinely elect.....never mind, there'll be a vaccine for that someday, too.
    PCV is on the schedule in Ontario for babies. They give it at 2 months, 4 months and 12 months. Your niece's baby almost certainly got the vaccine if they were following the schedule.

    The vaccine only protects against some strains of some bacteria that can cause pneumonia, which is awesome, but kids can still get pneumonia even when the vaccine is working perfectly.

    The vaccine is then not recommended again until age 65 (for both the US and Canada) but I assume your mother was over 65.

    Adult vaccination rates tend to be not that great, and it is possible a health care provider she saw missed an opportunity to offer her the vaccine. Or maybe she had it and forgot about it if she received multiple shots at the same time (like flu and shingles vaccines).
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    Quote Originally Posted by polevaultpower View Post
    PCV is on the schedule in Ontario for babies. They give it at 2 months, 4 months and 12 months. Your niece's baby almost certainly got the vaccine if they were following the schedule.
    My grandniece didn't get it and her mother didn't even know it existed, until I told her. Nobody in any hospital visit, nor her family doc, told her. She got vaccinated AFTER I told them about it. And my family, which is largely white collar and highly educated, knew nothing about it. My stepmother's ex was CEO of the hospital in the city where I reside. I've talked to dozens of people about this vaccine in the past 6 months, not one knows it exists. So it matters next to nothing what schedule(s) it's on - it isn't being given as it should. And the public should be aware of it, because it works.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trackCanuck View Post
    My grandniece didn't get it and her mother didn't even know it existed, until I told her. Nobody in any hospital visit, nor her family doc, told her. She got vaccinated AFTER I told them about it. And my family, which is largely white collar and highly educated, knew nothing about it. My stepmother's ex was CEO of the hospital in the city where I reside. I've talked to dozens of people about this vaccine in the past 6 months, not one knows it exists. So it matters next to nothing what schedule(s) it's on - it isn't being given as it should. And the public should be aware of it, because it works.
    That sounds really odd. I assumed that with socialized healthcare, the vaccines on the childhood schedule were given quite religiously unless the parents declined.

    I would be more concerned if pediatricians in the hospital were unaware of the vaccine than the CEO. My dad was a radiologist and knew very little about vaccines beyond what he had learned (and forgotten) decades prior, and his own experience with getting jabbed for Hep B over and over because he never developed titers for it.

    Routine administration for all adults age 65+ has only been recommended in Canada for a few years. I am far less surprised about the awareness levels for that age group.

    Family practice doctors here are sometimes less aware, especially if they don't see children often, but if they are part of a network, most have computer software that tells them the kids need which vaccines during their visit.

    PCV is definitely standard in the US for children. I suspect adult immunization rates are fairly low among eligible adults, especially if they don't have checkups very often.

    I don't know how great awareness is among parents here, because most parents who are vaccinating on schedule don't pay close attention to which vaccines their kids are getting.
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    https://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/about/faqs.html

    From the CDC...

    Q: Doesn’t herd immunity protect most people?

    A: When enough of a population is immune to an infectious disease, through vaccination or prior illness, its spread from person to person is unlikely. Public health experts call this ‘herd immunity’ (or community immunity). Even people not vaccinated (such as newborns and those with chronic illnesses) typically have protection because the disease has little opportunity to spread within their community. Public health experts cannot rely on herd immunity to protect people from pertussis since:

    Pertussis spreads so easily
    Vaccine protection decreases over time
    Acellular pertussis vaccines may not prevent colonization (carrying the bacteria in your body without getting sick) or spread of the bacteria

    Vaccines are the most effective tool doctors have to provide protection against pertussis. It’s important that everyone get their recommended pertussis vaccines to protect themselves.
    Should people get the pertussis vaccine? Yes.

    Should we blame anti-vaxers for the resurgence of pertussis? No. The acellular pertussis vaccine only really protects the person being vaccinated.
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    Some students at UCLA and Cal State-LA put on home quarantine for exposure to measles and lack of proof of prior immunization:
    https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/04/25/hea...www.cnn.com%2F
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    From Facebook: “Roald Dahl on Measles: "Olivia, my eldest daughter, caught measles when she was seven years old. As the illness took its usual course I can remember reading to her often in bed and not feeling particularly alarmed about it. Then one morning, when she was well on the road to recovery, I was sitting on her bed showing her how to fashion little animals out of coloured pipe-cleaners, and when it came to her turn to make one herself, I noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn’t do anything.
    'Are you feeling all right?' I asked her.
    'I feel all sleepy,' she said.
    In an hour, she was unconscious. In twelve hours she was dead.
    The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her. That was...in 1962, but even now, if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her. On the other hand, there is today something that parents can do to make sure that this sort of tragedy does not happen to a child of theirs. They can insist that their child is immunised against measles.
    ...I dedicated two of my books to Olivia, the first was ‘James and the Giant Peach’. That was when she was still alive. The second was ‘The BFG’, dedicated to her memory after she had died from measles. You will see her name at the beginning of each of these books. And I know how happy she would be if only she could know that her death had helped to save a good deal of illness and death among other children."
    Roald Dahl, 1986”
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