Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Quote Originally Posted by user4 View Post
    The weakness with your approach is that it is perfectly suited to a populace that is illiterate and uneducated. It actually encourages and promulgates illiteracy and dependency. It therefore turbo charges the social need for greater and greater centralized control. The results are a vast population incapable of learning and incapable of self sufficiency in even the most basic of their material needs. A well fed and medicated population dependent on government for their every need, from their medical to their food. And since ultimately the government draws its resources to provide such materials from the population it is a risky thing to expect it to be able to provide for a population that is increasingly unable to provide for itself. Civilizations can deteriorate. I know of no great civilization that was founded on a population of illiterate dependent fools.
    Bravo!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by odelltrclan View Post
    Bravo!!!!!
    Standing ovation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by user4 View Post
    The weakness with your approach is that it is perfectly suited to a populace that is illiterate and uneducated. It actually encourages and promulgates illiteracy and dependency. It therefore turbo charges the social need for greater and greater centralized control. The results are a vast population incapable of learning and incapable of self sufficiency in even the most basic of their material needs. A well fed and medicated population dependent on government for their every need, from their medical to their food. And since ultimately the government draws its resources to provide such materials from the population it is a risky thing to expect it to be able to provide for a population that is increasingly unable to provide for itself. Civilizations can deteriorate. I know of no great civilization that was founded on a population of illiterate dependent fools.
    I might join the applauding crowd, if this thread did not deal with the everpresent threat of infectious diseases, some of them brutally deadly. In order to protect the society, you need to have a "herd immunity." General consensus is that in order to achieve it, you need about 95% immunization compliance. To expect that degree of voluntary compliance is ludicrous, regardless of the society's level of education or sophistication. You need to make it compulsory.
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley
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    Quote Originally Posted by user4 View Post
    I know of no great civilization that was founded on a population of illiterate dependent fools.
    MOST great civilizations of antiquity was founded on a population of illiterate dependent fools!! It was called 'the army'. Classical Greeks were the rare exception. No, I take that back; Alexander the Great depended on his army too.

    Think Rome and the Mongols, for starters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
    MOST great civilizations of antiquity was founded on a population of illiterate dependent fools!! It was called 'the army'. Classical Greeks were the rare exception. No, I take that back; Alexander the Great depended on his army too.

    Think Rome and the Mongols, for starters.
    When one talks of Greek civilization, the focus is usually on Athens of ~500 to ~350 BC. That a city and surroundings of ~350,000, could produce so many all-time greats at any interval within those 150 years, boggles the mind. Two of the greats who took the trouble to pointedly criticize Athens and her actions (Euripides and Socrates) were dealt with severely. This followed the Peloponnesian War, in which Athens' actions often plumbed the depths of brutality, as partially documented by Thucydides.

    Alexander was, of course, Macedonian, and the title The Great was given by the victors, who wrote the history. In Persia, his reputation is not so great, and Cyrus is usually called The Great.
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    User4's soliloquy presents ideals we'd all love to embrace.
    Still, Pego's tag: A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact applies.
    User4 conflates illiteracy, dependency and foolishness as one package.

    Unfortunately, in my ever lengthening life I have found that those three traits are exasperatingly independent of one another. I have known very wise, very self-sufficient illiterate folks and very literate, dependent fools. We constantly see and hear from political hacks from both ends of the spectrum advocating government programs that are clearly foolish or entirely based on self-interest (i.e. dependency).

    Case in point is the USA and vaccinations and this posting board.
    I am well acquainted with university graduate professionals who believe that many pressing social concerns, including the need for immunization from common childhood and adult diseases, are myths created by some grand conspiracy to manipulate the masses.

    For long-time posters here - does anyone doubt that MattMarriott is literate? Likewise, does anyone doubt that he is delusional? Anyone want to leave decisions that impact the health of the general population to irrational individuals (bearing in mind that most irrational people regard you as the irrational one)? Want to allow people suffering from symptomatic ebola virus to use their own discretion about where they go and what they do?

    Madison, in the Federalist Papers, provides insight that still rings true to me:
    If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place, oblige it to control itself.
    Last edited by jc203; 10-05-2014 at 06:55 PM.
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    This op-ed piece in today's NY Times really has nothing to do with vaccination programs, but falls under the broader category of very scary info about eradicating diseases. We think of smallpox as having been eradicated forever. Maybe not. :-(

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/op...you-think.html
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    This is some very scary sh*t in that article:

    the smallpox virus has now found a second host. It is not the pig. In fact, it is not even what we think of as a living thing. It is the computer.
    This is not some conceptual game. This is real and life-threatening.
    If you search online, you can find the sequence for the smallpox genome. It is a word written with the letters A, T, C and G. The word is about 185,000 letters long. It is the word that tells cells to make smallpox viruses.
    The flip-side to mapping the human genome is that the weaponization of viruses - biological warfare - can happen in computer labs, which means it can be sent all over the world instantaneously, and then created in a bio lab.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
    This is some very scary sh*t in that article:



    The flip-side to mapping the human genome is that the weaponization of viruses - biological warfare - can happen in computer labs, which means it can be sent all over the world instantaneously, and then created in a bio lab.
    To be able to create RNA/DNA in the lab has been the Holy Grail of biology for a long time. You create RNA, you have created life.
    "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
    by Thomas Henry Huxley
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