Facts, Not Fiction

 
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26mi235 View Post
    I think that the politization of 'global climate change' has to do with the differing opinions of what should be done (and why) about it. To me, the actual repudiation of climate change is just silly. No one I know doubts that the level of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased steadily. No scientist of note that I know of thinks that CO2 in the atmosphere alters the radiation of energy from the earth's environment (and certainly not such esteemed critics such as Freeman Dyson). Similarly, no scientist of note doubts that human activity is responsible for the majority (actually lion share) of the incremental CO2.

    However, it is at the next step that things start to diverge and at which the discussion should take place. What exactly are the effects (here go see the critics of Freeman Dyson). Also, what sort of actions will alter those effects in a net beneficial way. And most important, does it make (economic) sense to undertake those costs to change the evolution of the drivers of climate change. On this last point, far fewer people know enough to actually provide a firm answer.

    I know that knowledgeable people that I respect as individuals and as people able to asses technical factors such as lonewolf take positions about the initial points (are there effects from CO2 (and other drivers); are there changes in the levels of CO2 (and etc); do humans cause a significant subset of the drivers). I wish instead they were focused on the next stage, which is much less well understood, less well documented, much less certain. While I think that it is likely that undertaking fairly substantial efforts to alter the course are good policy, I do not feel that I know enough to say that is the case. I think that the efforts should be in the debate of the very messy issue of what can be done and is it worth doing.

    Clearly (to me) those living on very low islands and coastal areas should very much want things done because they are likely to be losers. However, there are also likely to be winners. I am a co-author of a paper in Nature (a quarter century ago, and still relevant today, see Adams, et. al., May 1989) on the economic effects of climate change on the US agricultural sector, and there are clearly winners (e.g., in cold, temperature-challenged areas like the upper midwest) and losers (places that are already warmer than is good for growing crops and without reliable water to assist in a warmer clime).

    In what might be a summary, is that politicians have "everything" to say in terms of what policies we should consider and why, and essentially nothing whatsoever to say about what the changes in the aggregate temperature index is (ad why), and if they are doing the latter, they cannot be trusted, they are doing someone else's bidding.
    Out of general curiosity, tried to look up the cited paper. Is it May 1990 Nature, rather than 1989?
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    Yes, it was so long ago that I was focusing on when I was wrapping up my primary end of the work which was when we submitted the report to the US EPA, the paper was then written in the winter following. Cite is Nature, May 1990, 345:219-224, which was long for an article in Nature. It was the best job of referring that I ever got on a paper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by booond View Post
    I agree that the discussion shouldn't be if there is climate change but now that we have climate change what do we do about it. However, too many entities throw much money - hundred of millions each year - in trying to fool the public into thinking this isn't happening.
    It's hard to explain away the facts:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZmJ_MIUsAA5GKP.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by tandfman View Post
    It's hard to explain away the facts:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZmJ_MIUsAA5GKP.jpg
    The anti-climate change crowd isn't interested in your facts
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    Senior Member
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    You can delete the word 'your'.
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    Wettest January in SW Florida history. A fourth tornado in as many weeks, and one in Miami as well.
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    From today's NY Times:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/23/sc...te-change.html

    >>The worsening of tidal flooding in American coastal communities is largely a consequence of greenhouse gases from human activity, and the problem will grow far worse in coming decades, scientists reported Monday.<<
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    Heavy winds---with gusts up to 40-60 MPH---have caused my computer (& all power) to go off 4 times tonight!
    It lasts a split second---then comes back on!

    I can understand power outtages---but why do these last just a second or less??
    (My computer screen goes black, then starts automatic reboot!)

    I'm in Bellingham WA.
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    Another scary article:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/23/sc...emissions.html

    Headline: Scientists Warn of Perilous Climate Shift Within Decades, Not Centuries
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    And if that didn't scare you, try this one:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/31/sc...evel-rise.html

    Headline: Climate Model Predicts West Antarctic Ice Sheet Could Melt Rapidly
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