Thread: The NFL?

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    #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter Brown View Post
    Always bet against any draft pick Cleveland makes and you'll make money 99% of the time. It's where talent goes to die.
    Undeserved. All-Pros, just in the last 5 years:

    Phil Dawson
    Josh Gordon
    Jordan Cameron
    T.J. Ward
    Joe Haden
    Alex Mack
    Josh Cribbs
    Joe Thomas

    not that they're all home-grown, but there's no franchise (incl. the Raiders!) that doesn't cultivate talent.
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    #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooter Brown View Post
    The NFL has shown time and time again that if the QB isn't disciplined in their technique and decision making, they won't last long. He was a great individual player when he had a first round receiver and two linemen on his offense his freshman year against mostly undrafted college players. Also, with his NFL level raw skill set, he could out athlete most undrafted college defenders. He's not going to out athlete an NFL defense. Many guys are great in college in this scenario. He never showed, outside of a single win against Alabama, that he could make a difference for a season. A&M finished what, 3rd in their division that year? So 5th or 6th in conference overall. Not exactly impressive for having a Heisman winner and 3 first rounders on offense. That's pretty much where they were before he arrived on campus.

    Also, it's Cleveland. Always bet against any draft pick Cleveland makes and you'll make money 99% of the time. It's where talent goes to die.
    While I agree about at the NFL level you better have technique and make the right decisions, I disagree about Manziel not being a difference maker. That A&M defense was terrible, it was Manziel making all the difference in the world. So many times only a guy like Manziel is making that play.

    I also disagree about betting against Cleveland draft picks, that's not what we're seeing.
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    #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Dixon View Post
    ....I disagree about Manziel not being a difference maker. That A&M defense was terrible, it was Manziel making all the difference in the world. So many times only a guy like Manziel is making that play..
    Have to agree with Dixon on this. I don't know how anyone can find Manziel's accomplishments at TA&M as an opportunity to suggest there is a lack of talent on SEC defenses ?... that is just absolutely bizarre and strange.
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    #64
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    Cooter did not say that SEC defenses lack talent. He said that NFL defenses are better and that Johnny will not be able to be a star in the NFL based on his athleticism alone. And Cooter is right.
    The best young NFL QBs (say Kaepernick, Wilson and Luck) are terrific athletes who run when the defense offers them a chance to do so. They don't try to create something from nothing by running desparately to extend broken plays, as Manziel often did in college. The kid has to be able to make good decisions and execute within the system. He ain't shown that trait yet in Cleveland or in his personal demeanor, not even close... his first TD pass was a two yard flip and entirely the result of a strong running back bouncing through a bunch of really bad tacklers. Johnny, previously in the same game, had thrown some real stinky passes.
    No doubt he'll get better. Maybe. Or maybe he'll be another Ryan Leaf or Tebow. Still, never say never... Jimmy Clausen may end up back in the league with, perhaps, another chance to show how sure-fire QB picks can turn out to be awful in the NFL.
    Last edited by jc203; 08-24-2014 at 05:15 AM.
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    #65
    The Rams cut Michael Sam. It turns out that heart and determination may be sufficient to be an SEC Defensive Co-MVP, but in order to make an NFL roster, you need a minimal amount of talent to go along with it which Sam didn't possess. Besides a lack of elite physical talent, Sam was also hurt by the fact that he didn't play special teams unlike most other NFL journeymen.
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    #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    The Rams cut Michael Sam. It turns out that heart and determination may be sufficient to be an SEC Defensive Co-MVP, but in order to make an NFL roster, you need a minimal amount of talent to go along with it which Sam didn't possess. Besides a lack of elite physical talent, . . .
    Um . . . one isn't selected as the SEC (!!) Defensive Co-MVP w/o a heaping helping of raw physical talent. I don't care how much 'heart and determination' (which, by the way, are a-dime-a-dozen among SEC players) you have, you can't do the kinds of things he did without size, brute strength and speed. That said, do I think his gay-ness got him cut? Probably not, but it didn't help him in a game built on heman-ism.
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    #67
    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    The Rams cut Michael Sam. It turns out that heart and determination may be sufficient to be an SEC Defensive Co-MVP, but in order to make an NFL roster, you need a minimal amount of talent to go along with it which Sam didn't possess. Besides a lack of elite physical talent, Sam was also hurt by the fact that he didn't play special teams unlike most other NFL journeymen.
    special teams guys are generally chosen for their raw athleticism and fierce mental attributes. He was not that kind of player. Question, what position could Sam succeed at ? .. I wonder if a switch to OL could work for him ?
    Last edited by user4; 09-01-2014 at 04:22 PM.
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    #68
    Quote Originally Posted by jc203 View Post
    The best young NFL QBs (say Kaepernick, Wilson and Luck) are terrific athletes who run when the defense offers them a chance to do so...No doubt he'll get better. Maybe. Or maybe he'll be another Ryan Leaf or Tebow. Still, never say never... .
    Yes, with the understanding that Tebow and Ryan Leaf were two totally, completely different athletes and QBs. Cant think of two NFL QBs that were more dissimilar than those two. Only thing they had in common was not making it as NFL QBs.
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    #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Atticus View Post
    Um . . . one isn't selected as the SEC (!!) Defensive Co-MVP w/o a heaping helping of raw physical talent. I don't care how much 'heart and determination' (which, by the way, are a-dime-a-dozen among SEC players) you have, you can't do the kinds of things he did without size, brute strength and speed. That said, do I think his gay-ness got him cut? Probably not, but it didn't help him in a game built on heman-ism.
    You obviously didn't see his performance at the NFL Combine, where he performed poorly across the board for someone his size. The stop watch and the tape measure do not lie.
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    #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
    You obviously didn't see his performance at the NFL Combine, where he performed poorly across the board for someone his size. The stop watch and the tape measure do not lie.
    Let's see . . . which is more important - what he did at the Combine or what he did on the football field . . .
    I repeat - you don't get to be SEC MVP on 'desire'. Do all the NFL Hall of Famers have 'Combine-worthy' numbers to support their membership? I think not. [tho I'm certainly NOT saying Sam would be an NFL starter]
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