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    #21
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    Depends on who Jane is
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    #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JumboElliott View Post
    Then you can stop referring to Justin Gatlin as a two time drug cheat and tell other people to, because his first "bust" was for a prescribed stimulant.
    This, I never knew. I always thought it was for something far more serious. I suppose that's why he got only 4 years instead of a lifetime ban for his 2nd failed test in 2006.
    Last edited by CookyMonzta; 08-02-2014 at 08:25 PM.
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    #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldvaulter View Post
    Anabolic steroids have shown themselves to be extremely harmful, especially over time. However, you're right about the potential dangers of high-intensity activity under the effect of stimulants. It can be very dangerous. However, I don't think that is the rationale for the ban. This discussion has been about the false notion that they are performance enhancing. But I think the question of their potential dangers is also worth addressing.
    Yes. Every pharmacologically active substance has a potential for side-effects, some catastrophic. Most of them are dose-related. You cannot protect everybody from him/herself. Cyanide is deadly, but that does not mean that we should prohibit use of almonds.
    A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact.


    Thomas Henry Huxley
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    #24
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    I would add EPO to the steroids on the banned list. All other hematocrit enhancing agents including autotransfusion should be legal. HGH also meets oldvaulter's criteria, but it appears that it's PED property is exclusively (or almost exclusively) as an adjunct to anabolic steroids. Of course, steroid masking agents should remain on the Index as well.
    A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact.


    Thomas Henry Huxley
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    #25
    One of reasons for such long lists of banned substances is in part there is no definitive clinical research on long term effects when used for performance, or even if they affect some people and nit others Sure we have circumstantial evidence and smart arses giving what they believe is definite answers, but clinical trails just for sport would probably not be approved and would fundamentally be unethical. Also encouraging a drugs arms race would increase hazards and risks in the production of such substances and their environment of use. Do people really think athletes will wait 5 or 10 years for these substances to be approved for sports use as the usual clinical methology would require? There is also the factor that we know supplement companies are often throwing junk or other stuff in their powders, encouraging them to go further by being more generous with the limits only creates an environment that is more hazardous.

    Some substances may be debated for their PED effects but if's it is debatable the athletes shouldn't be taking them.
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Pego View Post
    My camp is growing. Slowly but surely ;-).
    I'm 100% not in your camp.
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by shivfan View Post
    Some previously self-righteous posters have finally seen the light since their own countrymen have recently tested positive....

    It was a different story when these athletes belonged to different countries.
    My story has never once changed and will you please stop trying playing this ridiculous poor Jamaican victim card.

    The reason people from all over the world are suspicious of Jamaican athletes is that your testing procedure is a shambles and they keep failing drug tests (Of all varieties).
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by JumboElliott View Post
    Then you can stop referring to Justin Gatlin as a two time drug cheat and tell other people to, because his first "bust" was for a prescribed stimulant.
    I'm well aware what his first bust was for but you once you fail twice your are drug cheat plain and simple.

    Have you read the CAS ruling? Throughout it makes clear that his first ban was legitimate. At every stage his team try to have the original ban overturned and at each stage it is upheld. When he was let back early it was under the condition that it counted as a first penalty and should he fail again he would be banned for life.

    As Arne Ljungqvist said at the time..........

    "My proposal to the Council was to reinstate Mr Gatlin with immediate effect whilst making it clear that, as this was to be considered as a first offence, if he tested positive again, he would be banned for life in accordance with IAAF Rules. Although I recall that some Council Members may have disagreed with me and felt that he should not be reinstated, my advice was followed by the vast majority and the decision was duly taken to reinstate him”.

    So he was allowed back early with a specific warning of what would happen if he tested positive again.

    Had he not turned out to be dirty no one would even remember the first one. As it is he was let off early the first time then given a lenient sentence the second.

    That's why people dislike him so much.
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    #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zues2014 View Post
    The issue most people have with Gatlin is that he never ever admitted any guilt on his part even up to this day.
    And you have an issue with him receiving twice the ban of other first-time PEDs DQs too, right?

    The problem with your position is that it assumes that you are right and he is lying, which you do not know. It seems likely that he is, but I do not know that to be the case. Further, apparently many others that are cheating are not caught, so that the many that are preferred to him have an undeserved preference.
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    #30
    He got 4 years because it was his second offense.

    Also, his current and past company/coaches he is with gives me all the information I needed to know.
    Last edited by zues2014; 08-03-2014 at 12:03 AM.
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